www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Catechism of the Catholic Church

Good points have been made about the inadequecies of the CCC in addressing Eastern Catholic approaches to faith, theology and spirituality. The Catechetical Directory of the Ukrainian Catholic Church does a much better job of this, for example this excerpt from Paragraph 51:

"Deification is a process of transforming and returning to the original gift of being like God and growing in God. Deification is the goal of human life. This was God's plan from the moment of the creation of the world."

This type of language necessary for the catechetical growth of Greek Catholics can't be found in the CCC.

Dr John,

Excellent! You are the Doctor!

Father Anthony de Mello, S.J. said the shortest distance to the truth is a story.

Getting back to the CCC. When there is no storyteller a catalog of facts (catechism) is helpful to get an authoritative answer.

Tell us a story Dr.

Paul

Am I missing something here? I was under the impression that the very purpose of the Catechism of the Catholic Church was to provide a tool for bishops and others in preparing authentic teaching materials after many years of confusion over what should be included in such materials and even what the Church actually believed after the Vatican Council.

I had a rather spirited discussion with a person in charge of religious education who tried to tell me that after the Council all that mattered was that one went to Mass and stayed under the Pope. This person believed that everything else was a matter of taste and needed only to be “touchy-feely”—to make people feel good about themselves. Sin was as out as black vestments and fasting. (Bad last reference after all you, my brethren, have braved the rigors of the Great Fast.)

I had a rather spirited discussion with my son about the Church's teaching about the sanctity of the marriage bed, the sin of scandal associated with living with a woman prior to marriage, etc. He had never had any of the topics touched in 12 years of Catholic school and Confirmation preparation. Sad.

I've supplemented my children's education with materials at the expense of being “reactionary” and an “anachronism” but I care nothing for labels when the teaching of the Church is involved. I have used the Eastern Fathers as supplements, too, since every source that can shed light on the Light and deepen the faith of those in one's charge needs to be used.

But though it may have shortcomings, it is still a useful yardstick. There are still those who are teaching things contrary to what is contained therein and teaching that we ought to avoid the whole book as a reactionary tool that has no business being in the American Church. I believe that one of the basic needs met by this book was a definition for the Universal Church of what constitutes basic doctrine today.

Perhaps the reason that this book has such a Latin perspective is that the Latin Church's experience in the past 500 years has been in an environment that has consistently denied so much of what is basic to the teaching of Christ that has come to us over the past 2000 years. And this denial seems to come from so many directions: religious, philosophical, theological, cultural. We seem to have a need for such a method as catechisms to keep things straight.

BOB

Brother Theophan, I think that you are being overly harsh on the Roman community. We must remember that the RC Church incorporates a whole boat-load of nations and cultures. And each has its own way of both learning and educating. To suggest that a "document", emanating from a dicastrie in Rome will be the overarching factor in evangelization is just smoke and mirrors - and the smoke comes from some funny sources.

The true fact remains: we need baptized Christians who are totally devoted to the service of God and God's poorest people. When these people are allowed to flourish without lightning bolts and mandates to 'conform to the rules', we get converts. Although I have no data to back it up, I'm sure that our holy mother, Teresa of Calcutta, has inspired more people to investigate the Gospel than all the catechisms ever published. Her craggy face and her hands changing the Depends of the dying, and feeding them spoonfuls of soup is more ennervating than all the legalist bullcrap generated in bureaucratic offices.

Sure, a Catechism is great because it provides formulas that are internally consistent; ideas are easily linked together and it is a great legal exercise. And it lets folks know what we believe in very clear terms. And this is actually wonderful.

But I also suggest that the touch of an aged hand on a face filled with pain is a true (perhaps the truest) sign of God's mercy towards mankind. The simple grace-filled Christian who buys an extra bottle of cold water and gives it - without explanation - to a homeless person on the street is, in my opinion, mirroring the actions of the Lord Jesus. When the recipient sees the simple cross around the neck of the donor, he/she comes to realize that Christians actually CARE about other folks and that we are not going to preach or drive them nuts by talking. We're just responding to their needs.

May the Lord help us to use the catechism and other printed works to let folks know that Jesus is both the Savior as well as the ideal model for every human being that lives. But may the Lord also give us the grace to be what I call "don't give a damn about anybody but Christ" folks who can just meet people and both love them and ascertain their needs and MEET those needs without making a big TV special about it.

Read the catechism. But LIVE the Gospel, my brothers and sisters, and we'll meet in heaven. And we'll be one fantastic group! (And the great saints will be hanging around with us because they'll feel comfortable with others who just 'serve!'.)

Blessings, y'all!!!

Christ is Risen!!!!

Dear Dr. John,

"Read the catechism. But LIVE the Gospel, my brothers and sisters..."

Well said.

The saying, "The only Gospel some people will read is YOU."

could also say, "The only catechism some people will read is YOU."

Mother Theresa said, "The world needs your good example and your prayers." She was an awesome lady.

Peace & joy,

Paul

Brother Paul,

I quite agree,though never heard it said like Dr John, the CCC is a outline,the truth is the Gospels.

james

Until the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith declares that Fr. de Mello's positions "... are incompatible with the Catholic faith and can cause grave harm."

So much for story and truth.

Joe

Well, I did some research on the internet and I did find that there is a "universal" Byzantine Catholic Catechism.

It is as I thought, the Light for Life series.

It is a three book series;
PART ONE: THE MYSTERY BELIEVED
PART TWO: THE MYSTERY CELEBRATED
PART THREE: THE MYSTERY LIVED

I have all three books and as I said, it doesn't lend itself to easy quoteing, like the CCC does, as it is writen in a book style, not in a numbered paragraph format as the CCC is. It also lacks any index to help find answers to questions.

Anyone else have this series and what do you think of it?


David

Please see the following link:

http://www.cin.org/archives/cineast/199708/0448.html

Joe,

Thanks for the link.

I do understand that one of the authors says "However, I did not write it as a "catechism," but as "an adult statement of faith.""

But that doesn't change the fact that it is advertised as a Byzantine Catechism.

Please see this link, http://www.iconbook.org/Catechetical.html and scroll down to the LIGHT FOR LIFE SERIES.

And if one goes to the Theological Book Service website (http://www.theobooks.org/) and clicks on the link to God With Us then clicks on search and enters the word "catechism"....

It comes up with two links, one to Light for Life: Part One�The Mystery Believed and the other to Catholicism in the Third Millennium.

So while the author might not have intended this, it is what has come about.


David

From theobooks.org, we read: “The Mystery Believed explores the mystery of the living and revealing God. As a person enters the text, one immediately recognizes a difference in emphasis with the Catechism of the Catholic Church...In contrast to the Catechism, which starts with a discussion of what we as humans can know about God, the first chapter of Light for Life discusses the Mystery of God and emphasis, not what we can know about God, but rather how we are grasped by God” (James Campbell, Rel. Ed. Consultant R.C. Archdiocese of Chicago).

What iconbooks.com and theobooks.com considers the Light for Life series is their own interpretation and presentation. I'm sure any presentation of faith would be simply classified as a 'catechism.' Instruction of the faith is catechesis and one who instructs is a catechist. But one of the authors specifically states that it was an 'adult statement of faith' and not a catechism. I'd take his word for it rather than those selling the books.

Joe

Dear Amado,

Just because I'm nice to you (Latins) doesn't mean I want to be one of you (Latins).

To each their own Particular Church!

Alex

Dear Joe,

Yes the Vatican did condemn SOME of Father de Mello's writings, but not all of them. The congregation outlined some very technical aspects of Fr De Mello's writings that were objectionable. I read one of his books, One Minute Wisdom, and I found nothing incompatible with the Catholic faith in that work (it had an imprimatur from a Catholic bishop).

I'm glad you are "testing all things, holding fast to that which is good." --St. Paul

Sincerely,

Paul

Dear Friends,

I guess I'm sort of between what Dr. John and Cantor Joseph have indicated here.

I tend to use stories and personal experiences in teaching religion.

But at the same time, I don't always fulfill the requirements of the curriculum in so doing - and I don't care.

I don't care if the kids don't know the conditions that led to the Union of Brest etc.

(Perhaps it's a good thing they didn't know my take on that anyway . . . ).

One time, I decided to attempt something totally off the cuff.

I got one class to prepare their own liturgy.

They elected one of their own (a girl - sorry Snoopy!) to be the main celebrant.

Others became candle-holders, readers etc.

I let them organize it as they wished and, do you know what?

They created a liturgy with very hard-and-fast rules of order, a sequence of events, and a hierarchy of persons near the "altar."

I guess they were patterning this after what they saw in church - after all, the main celebrant did very little, but kept giving orders to the deacons, subdeacons and cantors . . .

When I saw this, it moved me deeply. Liturgy is truly something that has our own hand in it.

And judging from what this cast of characters did, their faith came really alive as they lived their own liturgy.

At graduation, the class had a skit on the stage portraying each of their teachers.

They portrayed me too .

The fellow who portrayed me had a prayer rope around his wrist, and kept smiling . . .

He announced, "And today class we are going to talk about Adam and Eve . . ."

To which, everyone slumped down in their seats and said, "Oh brother!"

And then the fellow came back with a ". . .actually, I was wrong, today we are going to talk about . . .sex!!"

At this everyone jumped up in their seats, ears at full alert . . .

The principal, who was sitting in the audience near me, gave me a stern look.

I turned to her and whispered, "I promise you that I never once mentioned anything about . . . Adam and Eve. . ."

Later, the fellow who portrayed me came up and asked me how I thought the skit played out.

Of course, I gave him high marks!

It then occurred to me that this fellow, five years earlier, had told me that he was an agnostic and was only attending my class under protest because he had to . . .

We became good friends . . .

Alex

Dear Brethern,

Please check the Online Orthodox Catechism (Russian Orthodox)www.orthodoxeurope.org/catechism/000001.php

James