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You make sweeping statements against people you don't even know. You practice what I advocate and claim that my conversion in inauthentic. Give it a rest. You are young yet you claim to have first hand knowledge of things that occured when you could not possibly have first hand knowledge of them. You twist what I say.

Enough. You may think what you wish of me. I intend to learn and evangelize. Go and do likewise.

CDL

Hold on gentlemen.

Dear Dan and Chris,

I seem to have started something here with my post to Carson, suggesting that we were not engaged in adult discussion at that moment.

That was too inflammatory for the person, the moment and the subject matter and I publicly withdraw that remark and apologize to Carson.

Be of good cheer and try to relax through this discussion.

Could someone please write to the moderator and tell him that I have accomplished what he asked of me, and done so sincerely and with good cause, it appears. I cannot reach his PM.

And tell him it is never necessary to threaten Eli. Eli, wrong at times, but not a child needing to be paddled, please.

Eli

This has been a good discussion, Daniel.

The situation in the Byzantine Church has its own integral causes and they are not singular in nature. Most growth or decline is mulit-causal.

Chris and I question the formulaic approach that you offer. In fact, we reject it. That does not mean we reject you. What we do not accept is the assertion that one need not know the target situation, one only need know how it works in other places.

You have still not responded to my saying to you that the Catholic Church has and continues to get most of her vocations from small parishes, between 600 and 800 families being the high end for "small", let's say for the moment, where the priest has been there for at least a full generation if a generation, for these purposes, is 12-18 years.

That data holds whether or not the priest is perceived as a "good guy" or not. Catholics have a way of recognizing 'holy' and can separate it from 'good guy' or 'great speaker.'

So there's more to this discussion than Baptisms and finance.

Eli

Eli,

I will make a stab at responding to you but I really don't trust you. We'll see what happens.

I have no doubt that most vocations come from smaller parishes. That is true in almost every group of Christians. I have never given a formula for size at all. Never. You and Chris read what you want to in my posts. It would be nice if you didn't but there you have it.

CDL

Mr. Lauffer,

In case you don't realize it. To say to someone publicly "I do not trust you." is to say to that person "You are not trustworthy."

That is a very negative comment and sets up a situation where I am now labeled publicly as untrustworthy, and like it or not those things are highly suggestive and do stick in people's minds and do have consequences that are not positive or loving.

I have never attacked you as a person, Mr. Lauffer, by labeling you in any fashion. At worst I have rejected your assertions and very recently suggested that the conversation was deteriorating.

Given your tendency to suggest very negative things about people who disagree with your ideas, I will wish you God's blessings and tell you that I will not refrain from commenting on any idea that I find on this Forum, but I will never again addres anyone who is willing to paint me in a negative light or complain about me if I respond to defend myself.

May God bless you.

Eli