www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Ecumenism and Islam

hello all,
in this past Sunday's edition of the Chattanooga Times Free Press, I noted with great interest an opinion column in the Perspective section. the column was written by one Steve Barrett, who may be a Chattanooga only columnist, I don't know, I only read one Sunday paper.
any ways, let me give a synopsis of what he wrote on the subject of interfaith ecumenism:
Barrett begins by citing C.S. Lewis' "The Last battle" of the Narnia series. the Calormenes (oddly reminiscent of Saracens) paint their god Tash and the Christ figure Aslan as one and the same (Tashlan). they manage to sucker the Narnians into believing this garbage, and after they conquer the Narnians, out goes Tashlan and back comes Tash. as Lewis wrote: there was no nonsense about Tashlan now.(how very unecumenical).
Barret then discusses what he read about a camp in New Hampshire that supposedly promotes tolerance between Jews, Christians, and Muslims (!!! !!!). some fifteen year old camper (Muslim) then passed out song sheets and led all the campers (around the campfire, no doubt) in singing: "Allah, there is only one God". so after the kids sing this crap a few times, the camper has them singing: "and Muhammad is his messenger".(!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). how nice, the kids just did the Shahada and I guess they are all Muslims now. Barrett muses what would have been the result if the Muslim kids sang "Holy, Holy, Holy"( you know, where you sing that God is in three Persons, Blessed Trinity?)
Barrett then mentions that the Swedish city Malmo is now 40% Muslim and ambulance drivers will not go into certain neighborhoods there without police escort, that may change when the ministries of Health and of Justice are in the hands of Muslims. Barrett holds that the Muslims seek to dominate Europe and impose their "values" on the non Muslims. he goes on the discuss what happened to the murder of Theo van Gogh in the Netherlands by Muslim fanatics, and hints that that is just the beginning.
this is the end result of the interfaith ecumenism. we need to hold to what it says in John 14:6 when Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life,and no one comes to the Father but by me", Unecumenical? tough, live with it. I have spoken the truth, accept it or face the consequences before the Grat White Throne. and if you are in the Truth, let others know Him as well.oh, if you wish to contact Mr. Barrett, here is his E mail
sbarrett@timesfreepress.com
or call him at (423) 757-6329.
Much Love,
Jonn

Hi,

Well, one has to understand that "Allah" is not exactly the personal name of the Muslim God, but the generic Arabic word meaning "God".

Arabic-speaking Christians call God "Allah".

This sentence only says:

God, there is only one God.

Which is a belief Jews, Christians and Muslims share.

If all those gathered chanted only this part, they were not saying anything contrary to their faith.

If the Muslim kid added his own beliefs as a personal addendum to the general chant, he did so to state his individual position, which is to be respected.

I do not see anything wrong with this.

Shalom,
Memo

if it were only that simple. Christians are taught how to relate to a non Christian environment when they find themselves as the minority. muslims could never understand that concept, they must rule. convert, die or pay tribute. do you think that Muslim kid would have sang "Holy, Holy, Holy" ? that would be blasphemy to him. I sure as anything will not call Muhammad the prophet of God. My God is the God of the Holy Bible, not the Koran. if Christian Arabs refer to God as "allah" perhaps it is because they did so at the point of a scimitar.
Much Love,
Jonn
P.S. Jesus Christ is the ONLY legitimate way to the Father, not Muhammad or any one else.
Much Love,
Jonn

John,

As stated before, Allah is the arabic name for God.

It is ironic that you say HOLY HOLY HOLY because I sing the Quduson (Trisagion) every sunday.

+Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal one have Mercy on us.
+Quddouson Allah! Quddouson ul-qawee! Quddouson ulladhee la yamout! Irhamna.
+Agios O Theos, Agios iskiros Agios anthanatos eleison imas.


In the second repetition, Ilah is actually Allah. So, I call Allah Holy every single Sunday. This has nothing to do with a scimitar. Neither does Theos or Deus.

Please See:
http://www.mliles.com/melkite/thesaurusq.shtml
(Under Trisagion)

Or

http://www.mliles.com/melkite/thesaurusal.shtml
(under Allah)

Exactly, laka ya rab
where r u from by the way?

Dear Charbel,

I notice you are from Lebanon. How is the situation there?

Zenovia

Charbel,

I am currently attending the Franciscan University in Steubenville. I go to St. Jospeh's melkite chruch in Akron and St. John of the Desert church in Phoenix.

I will live in Phoenix (Spr '08) when I graduate.

Zenovia,

It depends on where you live in lebanon. the affected areas r pretty bad. although they bombed many christian areas, but people r acting normally( that is what i heared) i couldnt go back to lebanon since i was in greece before the war. im going in a couple of days, so i will update you

laka Ya rabb,
Thanks for telling me. I studied in the American University of Beirut and now im going to Concordia University in Montreal, Canada
Cheers

Hi,

I don't see why not. I am pretty sure calling Allah three times "Holy" is entirely compatible with his faith.

He doesn't need to believe that each repetition is addressed to a distinct person/hypostasis of the Holy Trinity.

According to your account of the event, only he did this.

My opinion of Muhammad is that he did a great deal of good for his people, so although I would certainly not call him a prophet, I am not quite ready to dismiss him altogether.

But you see, there is only One God and we believe Him to be the source of ALL good things, even the several contained in the Koran.

No. Arab Christians call God "Allah" because they have always done so, even way before Islam came to be.

If anything, it is the other way around. Muslims learned from Christianity how to call God.

Nobody is denying that, on the contrary, what I am saying is that whatever good is present in any religion, that good comes from God through Christ.

Shalom,
Memo

youmay want to read the book "Sword of the Prophet" by Serge Trifkovic with whom I wgree with on whehter allh and God are one and the same. you can find this book at
reginaorthodoxpress.com
the writer is presumably Orthodox, but the publishing company seems to be headed up by Franky Schaeffer, one of the most important converts to Orthodoxy in recent years, besides the late theologian Pelikan.
but I return to my original premise that allah and the true God are not one and the same, which is what Barrett wrote in his column, and I stress because the Muslim boy was either wittingly or unwittingly leading Christian youth into saying the opposite. it has been suggested that allah is nothing more than the moon god of pre Islamic Arabia.
while it is possibly true that allah is a generic name for "god" in the Arabic language, (Elohim being the Hebrew, and the languages are closely related) it comes down to your definition of the term "god". St. Paul mentioned that there is the One True God and no gods.
the Koran says that Jesus did not die, the Bible says He did (and rose from the dead), if both texts are the "Word of God", which one is telling the truth. Jesus said that He was (and is ) God, the Koran flatly denies this. I realize that you are a believer, thus I am not implying anything to the contrary. but I implore you to think this matter over and do a bit more research. I myself took a course in Islam in my undergrad days at a state university, thus I have some clue as to what I am talking about. tolerance between religions is a good thing, but compromise waits by the door.
Much Love,
Jonn

I think we are more interested in the grammar of the context than the meaning of the context.

Hello, does anyone doubt the encroachment of incremental Islam within our societies? We go overboard not to insult or inflame the Muslims but have no problem ignoring tradtional Christianity. We are doomed! We are so ignorant of what is going on around us and we do it at our own peril. Before you know it Islam will have influence not only in our Congresses and local leadership but also and more importantly in our court system.

Good Luck Naives!

Im am old and will not see this take over and I guess this is merciful for me but I do feel some sympathy for the younger ones who will have to meet this threat head on.

That moon god stuff again. I see that hand of the Evangelical Protestants here, as they are the only ones who go on and on about it. Such ignorance!

Sometimes i wonder why people blame us for calling God (allah) while they don't blame jesus when he says alloho which is God in aramaic!

Those protestants or whoever thinks that allah is a different God, should stop being ignorant and start accepting the people around. By the way, Muslims believe in the same God, the creator, except that jesus is just a prophet and not his son.

Greetings

As for grammatical, "Allah", influence from Arabic, also the word used in Indonesian language (as I'm an Indonesian) to refer "God."

Moslems, Christians, and other religions in Indonesia use this word which means God.

look at my post concerning the work of Trifkovic. he is Orthodox. and if the Evangelical Protestants are going on and on about the "moon god" thing, thye might have something approaching the truth of the matter. I have said this once, and I will say it again: Eastern Catholics and Orthodox have more in common with Evangelicals than with the ecumaniacs of the World Council of Churches (that have for some astonishing reason,whatever that may be, Orthodox members)and the liberal apostates who have infiltrated, and are ruining, the Latin part of the Church. we need to become more correct in our understanding of the Faith than politically. correct. I don't know whether I would go as far as calling the Muslim "god" a moon god, but I do know that Jesus is God, something the Muslims do not hold to. so, lets define what we are talking about when we talk about God with our finite minds.
Much Love,
Jonn

The God of Abraham, Isaac and jacob is what Jews, Christians and Moslems share. The moon that appears on their flags is a Roman symbol. How may of us Byzantines own Crosses with the moon on one side of the cross and the moon on the other. These Protestants are going on with nonsense.

"It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city's existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the five pillars of Islam, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags, and as you will see on the following page, it is still not standard on flags used in the Muslim world today."

The article linked below makes many good points concerning the West's inabiliy and unwillingness to address the threat posed by Islam.

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/muslimadvance.aspx

On this Eve of Atrocity, the fall of the Towers, on 0-11-01, let us reflect. First of all, it was an event on the Feast of the Eastern (true)Church Calendar of the Orthodox Christain Faith, the Beheading of St John the Forerunner. The "beheading" of the Towers was in proportional scale with the neck area of a man. Those of the 'new calendarist' bent of Orthodoxy who I have spoken with, were stunned by this 'coincidence' when I brought this to their attention. You could see it in their eyes, as to the Light of this small revelation and enlightenment. Was this whole thing a 'coincidence' as some would proclaim, or as in many things, one more stitch in the tapestry of the Revelation of the Life of the world, and the coming Kingdom to come.
Jesus (Yeshua-Joshua-Savior) is the Light of the world, and Christ (ha'Maschiah-Messiah-Hristos) the Annointed One, He (not she) is True God. IF, Mohammed is on the Other Side, he knows this, and surely must reget the innocent blood his followers have brought to the sacred ground of this Terra Firma. As declared by God the Father, the first innocent blood cried out from the ground as Abel died, when He spoke to Cain the first murderer. Could Mohammed have seen down through the centuries how many would be banished from God's Presence by the shedding of innocent blood..?

preach the Word, brother, preach the Word.
Much Love,
Jonn

My Coptic Christian Doctor who grew up in Alexandria makes the same argument. Perhaps there is more to it than you realize. He has icons all over his office and has not converted to Evangelical Protestantism.

CDL

That is not technically true. Certainly all claim Abraham as the Father but Muslims have little to do with Isaac.

CDL

I wonder why some group has not decided to regularly leaflet local mosques and cultural centers in an effort to inform and convert to christianity. Groups do it lots of other places for a variety of reasons and sects. (I am not speaking of any one group in particular. It just sort of puzzles me as to why it hasn't happened, especially since 9/11.) Maybe potential legal issues and perceived dangers since 9/11 have prevented more zealous groups from trying that. If anyone has heard of such activities, I'd like to know more about them.

Jim,

I suspect it would be as warmly welcomed as your local Baptist Church or Buddhist Temple leafleting your parish church - and, frankly, would be equally as disrespectful (as well as potentially illegal in many places - violating trespass ordinances, leafleting ordinances, littering ordinances, and, very possibly, disruption of worship service statutes in some jurisdictions).

Many years,

Neil

Neil, guess I sort of answered my own question, but you helped by adding details that clarify why it probably isn't happening at their centers. Guess door-to-door teams will continue as they have been doing- the Witnesses, Mormons, etc. all legally, of course.

I know the Evangelicals broadcast to Muslim countries. Look! At least they try.

But forgetting that, the Muslims do not worship the same God as we do. They are in heresy. I know that the Muslims believe that we worship more than one God. In the Koran they totally refute the 'Son' part. What a Muslim convert said, is that we should not state Son, but rather state the 'Word' of God. That way it would be more understandable to them...Creator, Word, and Comforter.I know, so many always complain about the usuage, but look, it does make it more comprehensible.

You know when Pope Benedict quoted from the Greek Emporor, he did so with the intent to start dialogue. But of course, those without reason, took it to their advantage and related only that which was beneficial to them...and thereby aroused the Muslim 'street'. :rolleyes:

When the Evangelicals say the Muslims worship the 'moon' god, they are probably right. Not because of the symbol, but because of what the symbol stands for. It is not the source of light as the sun, but rather a reflection of light. Therefore a created being, such as satan. Or so that's my opinion.

Zenovia

I said:

I now say:

Well the Church does consider the God the Muslims worship as being the same God, so I guess He is....but He's so incomplete. And then again if he's incomplete, there's a space left where the 'god' of this world can creep in. Isn't there?

Thoughts! Thoughts! Thoughts! :rolleyes:

Zenovia

I am no expert on Islam, but I've read enough about the atrocities committed by Muslims to wonder why any intelligent person, including so many Catholics, would consider Islam peaceful. Hogwash. Orthodox and I'm sure Eastern Catholics have died by the thousands at their hands, and we want to be ecumenical with them?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think all Muslims are terrorists... they are no better or worse than we are... but I personally think Islam is a horrible religion, and I think it's time orthodox Christians quit patronizing Islam as wonderful, peaceful, etc., and wake up and smell the coffee.

As far as I'm concerned, Muhammad is no better than Joseph Smith... just another charlatan in the grips of prelest claiming to have a vision.

I wish to offend no one. Just stating my opinion without the lovey-dovey sugar coating.