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Outrage as Muslim cleric likens women to 'uncovered meat'
By RICHARD SHEARS
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...in_article_id=412697&in_page_id=1770

Last updated at 16:10pm on 26th October 2006

A Muslim cleric's claim that women who do not wear the veil are like
'uncovered meat' who attract sexual predators sparked outrage around
Australia yesterday.

Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali, the nation's most senior Muslim cleric, compared
immodestly-dressed women who do not wear the Islamic headdress with meat
that is left uncovered in the street and is then eaten by cats.

Read more...
EU boss Barroso blasts veil as 'obstacle to communication'


Politicians including Prime Minister John Howard, community leaders and a
large number of Muslims condemned the mufti's comments amid calls that he
should be deported to Egypt, his country of origin.

He has since been forced to apologise for his remarks.

In a Ramadam sermon in a Sydney mosque, Sheik al-Hilali suggested that a
group of Muslim men recently jailed for many years for gang rapes were not
entirely to blame.

There were women, he said, who 'sway suggestively' and wore make-up and
immodest dress "and then you get a judge without mercy and gives you 65
years. But the problem, but the problem all began with who?" he said,
referring to the women victims.

Addressing 500 worshippers on the topic of adultery, Sheik al-Hilali added:
"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in
the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats
come and eat it..whose fault is it - the cats or the uncovered meat?

"The uncovered meat is the problem."

He went on: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab (veil), no
problem would have occurred."

Women, he said, were 'weapons' used by Satan to control men.

His comments, reported yesterday in the nationally-circulated newspaper The
Australian, created a storm of outrage.

It follows anger that erupted among Muslims in Britain earlier this month
when MP Jack Straw said women who wear veils over their face can make
community relations harder.

But Sheik al-Hilali's has created an even bigger storm by using the
uncovered meat example to accuse women who do not cover their heads and
faces of tempting men.

Prime Minister Howard labelled the mufti's comments as 'appalling and
reprehensible', adding: "They are quite out of touch with contemporary
values in Australia.

"The idea that women are to blame for rapes is preposterous. I not only
reject the comments, I condemn them unconditionally." Treasurer Peter
Costello urged the Muslim community to condemn the comments and take action
against the Sheik.

"If you have a significant religious leader like this preaching to a flock
in a situation where we've had gang rapes, in a way that seems to make it
justifiable, or at least lighten the dehumanising and degrading extent of
the offence."

A close associate of the sheik, Keysar Trad, said the speech was about
adultery, not rape. "He wasn't talking about standard norms of dress in Australia or any country, he wasn't talking about the hijab, he was talking about people who engage in extramarital sex."

But Federal Sex Discrimination Commissioner Miss Pru Goward said there could be no backtracking over the comments. "He could be guilty of
incitement to the crime of rape and should be deported," she said.

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Sheik says sorry for sex sermon
Sydney Herald
October 26, 2006 - 4:35PM

Australia's senior Muslim cleric Sheik Taj Aldin Alhilali has apologised for any offence caused by his comments that immodestly dressed women provoke sexual attacks.

Sheik Alhilali drew widespread condemnation for likening scantily clad women to uncovered meat eaten by animals in a sermon to 500 people last month, The Australian reported today.

"I unreservedly apologise to any woman who is offended by my comments," he said in a statement today.

"I had only intended to protect women's honour, something lost in The Australian presentation of my talk."

Prime Minister John Howard said the sheik's remarks were "appalling and reprehensible".

He told reporters on a drought inspection tour of western NSW: "They are quite out of touch with contemporary values in Australia.

"The idea that women are to blame for rapes is preposterous.

"I not only reject the comments, I condemn them unconditionally."

Sheik Hilaly's reported comments, made in a Ramadan sermon, compared women who wore make-up and dressed immodestly to meat that attracted cats.

He blamed women who "sway suggestively" and who wore make-up and no hijab (Islamic scarf) for sexual attacks.

"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?" he said.

"The uncovered meat is the problem.

"If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

Mr Howard said the sheik's remarks clearly related to a "particularly appalling" rape trial in Sydney.

Asked if the sheik should resign, Mr Howard replied: "It's not for me to say what position he should hold in the Islamic faith.

"But it is for me as Prime Minister to say I totally reject the notion that the way in which women dress and deport themselves can in any way be used as a semblance of justification for rape."

A Muslim leader has likened the comments to Pope Benedict XVI's recent speech about Islam that provoked violent street protests.

The former chairman of the Prime Minister's Muslim Community Reference Group, Ameer Ali, said the comments were similar to those in a speech which the Pope gave last month in which he quoted a 14th-century emperor regarding Muslims. The Pope later apologised.

"The Pope used an inappropriate quotation and people said he should be removed from the papacy and something inappropriate has happened here also," Dr Ali told smh.com.au.

"It's unfortunate that he used this colourful terminology to describe the dangers in dressing provocatively."

However, he said the cleric did not condone rape and Australian women should not be insulted.

The Islamic Council of NSW dubbed the comments as "un-Islamic, un-Australian and unacceptable".

A spokesman for the council, Ali Roude, today said he was "astonished" at Sheik al Hilaly's comments, saying he "had failed both himself and the Muslim community".

"While we respect the rights of any Australian citizen to freedom of speech, there is a further responsibility upon our civic leaders, be they religious, political or bureaucratic, to offer appropriate guidance to the people under their care," Mr Roude said.

"The comments widely reported today do no such thing."

Sheik al Hilaly had seriously misrepresented the teachings of Islam in his comments, which were offensive to both sexes, Mr Roude said.

The comments also showed a deep misunderstanding of rape and personal violence, which Mr Roude described as "crimes of power".

"As a father, brother and son myself, I take offence at the portrayal of both men and women in the alleged published comments."

Mr Roude said he had known Sheik al Hilaly for many years and was deeply disappointed he had made the remarks, which were in no way shared or endorsed by the council.

Former secretary of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils Shujat Mantoo said the sheik was "probably out of line", but he defended his right to stay in Australia.

"There would be many people like [the sheik] who uphold those views, and there would be among mainstream Christians, but we don't simply deport them. We educate them," Mr Mantoo said.

The sheik's comments have drawn strong criticism from some federal politicians and the federal Sex Discrimination Commissioner Pru Goward.

"It is incitement to a crime. Young Muslim men who now rape women can cite this in court, can quote this man ... their leader in court," she told the Nine Network.

"It's time we stopped just saying he should apologise. It is time the Islamic community did more than say they were horrified. I think it is time he left."

NSW Premier Morris Iemma denounced the sheik for his "outrageous" comments and called on the Muslim community to take action against him.

"He ought to be held account for his comments," Mr Iemma said. "What's in the papers this morning are offensive and outrageous and ought to be condemned and retracted. He does not have a flash record as far as these sorts of statements."

Treasurer Peter Costello branded the comments "totally unacceptable".

He called for Muslim leaders to condemn the comments, disassociate themselves from them, and pull their leader into line.

The Treasurer said comparing women to uncovered meat invited people to treat them in a degrading and dehumanising way.

He said the leaders of Catholic and the Anglican churches in Australia would never make such a comment.

"This is totally unacceptable. This is comparing women to uncovered meat," Mr Costello told the Seven Network.

"We really need political leaders to speak out against it.

"But I hope that the moderate Muslim leaders will speak out today and condemn these comments.

"Make it clear to Muslims that this is not the view of Islam and that they will really take some kind of action to disassociate themselves from the comments which Sheik al Hilaly has made.

"And take some action to try and pull him into line."

Mr Costello said that, in light of a series of Sydney gang rapes in 2000 committed by young Muslim men, the sheik's message was dangerous because it seemed to justify rape.

"If you have a significant religious leader like this preaching to a flock in a situation where we have had gang rapes, in a way that seems to make it justifiable, or at least lighten the dehumanising and degrading extent of the offence, then people that listen to that kind of comment can get the wrong idea.

"They can actually think that it is not as bad as it is."

- with AAP

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Thanks for the update Michael. The comments about the Pope's speech are interesting. Notice, non of the the Australian Christians are out rioting and killing a Muslim cleric the way poor Fr. Iskander was butchered.


Quote
Sheik al Hilaly had seriously misrepresented the teachings of Islam in his comments, which were offensive to both sexes, Mr Roude said.
This is so true. The original sppech, in addition to dehumanizing women, implies that men are savage beast incapable of controlling their passions.

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Enough is enough. If I wear so much as a plastic "clergy collar", let alone the rason, in such an allegedly secular country as Turkey, I can be arrested for breaking the law, and even expelled from Turkey. Since I am a Christian priest, I have no legal right to enter Saudi Arabia. Coptic Christians are the victims of discrimination and worse in Egypt. And so on.

But if we who live in the European Union protest that the hijab is offensive, we are called bigots, or even "racists" (since when in Islam a race?).

I support freedom of religion. I also support reciprocity. If Islam demands the right to come and proselytize Christians, why may we not demand the right to preach Christianity in Islamic countries?

As for comparing women to "uncovered meat", and justifying rape on that basis - words fail me.

Father Serge

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Dear Orest you said:

Quote
The original sppech, in addition to dehumanizing women, implies that men are savage beast incapable of controlling their passions.
I say:

Now had the Muslim cleric called them savage beasts, incapable of controlling their passions rather than simply 'cats', it would have been more acceptable. Instead, it is defended by comparing it to the Pope's quote of a Byzantine Emporor... yet the quote said the Muslims use violence. Now tell me, what was wrong with the Pope's speech and the quote? If a Muslim cleric condone's a gang rape and blames the victim, then isn't he condoning violence? confused

Of course this has nothing to do with the fact that women should dress more modestly. But then again, when everyone is half naked....what does it matter? People get use to it. :rolleyes:

...And that brings me to something I read in the Balkan section of Ekathemerini. In Southeastern Turkey, if a girl gets pregnant without being married, a male relative must kill her. It's an honor killing. eek

Now Turkey passed a law stating that whoever kills the girl, will get life in prison. The family would usually have the youngest male member do it with the idea that they would be under aged. The new law now includes younger members of a family, so in order to circumvent the new law, they began encouraging the pregnant girls to commit suicide. mad

There have been quite a few suicides among young girls in the past months. What a pity! Any Christian group could have saved those girls and the babies. frown

I can't help but wonder, if someone hates and wants to hurt another person, all he would have to do is rape that man's daughter. Great custom! confused

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The Indian Supreme Court just decided that if any woman ends up committing suicide within 7 years of marriage, the spouse and his/her family can be charged with "abbetting suicide" depending on the circumstance. Perhaps Turkey need such a ruling.

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Try this one: in a couple of Moslem countries of the Middle East there are Catholic nuns running orphanages, and in the process looking after the children of unwed mothers (the mothers have probably been killed already). The families are willing to allow the nuns to care for the children for a few years, and are unconcerned about whether the nuns have the children baptized or not - because when the child is on the verge of adolescence, the family will reclaim the child and kill him, thus removing the "stain" on the family's dubious honor. I regret to add that I am not making this up.

And we are supposed to admire these people because they are opposed to abortion?

Fr. Serge

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Quote
Originally posted by Serge Keleher:
Try this one: in a couple of Moslem countries of the Middle East there are Catholic nuns running orphanages, and in the process looking after the children of unwed mothers (the mothers have probably been killed already). The families are willing to allow the nuns to care for the children for a few years, and are unconcerned about whether the nuns have the children baptized or not - because when the child is on the verge of adolescence, the family will reclaim the child and kill him, thus removing the "stain" on the family's dubious honor. I regret to add that I am not making this up.

And we are supposed to admire these people because they are opposed to abortion?

Fr. Serge
my God!
I wish we could evacuate those children from that hellish nightmare.
Much Love,
Jonn

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There was a film, before it got pulled for PC reasons, starring Sally Field, 'Not without my daughter', about an american woman who marries an Iranian man, they have a daughter, go back to Iran, and then, is not allowed to leave, except, without her daughter, who is now considered a subject of the State Religion...Islam. Based on a true story. It drives the point home. AND,was filmed way before this whole thing became what it is today. Western Europe and the Americas better wake up, Islam is not here for nothing , but, to conquer. mik

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Oh, and PS, by the way, 'they' read these lists, lurking, they know the dialogue, and though not posters generally, they have slipped up in their identity. As in a few cases shows up as a spam lister. A good hacker can trace back to prove the point. nuf said, mik.

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Originally posted by mike ross:
There was a film, before it got pulled for PC reasons, starring Sally Field, 'Not without my daughter', about an american woman who marries an Iranian man, they have a daughter, go back to Iran, and then, is not allowed to leave, except, without her daughter, who is now considered a subject of the State Religion...Islam. Based on a true story. It drives the point home. AND,was filmed way before this whole thing became what it is today. Western Europe and the Americas better wake up, Islam is not here for nothing , but, to conquer. mik
I am fortunate that I got to see that movie. very enlightening, but alas, no surprises.
Much Love,
Jonn

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I've seen that film at least twice - can it be purchased on DVD?

Fr. Serge


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