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My first ever posting to the forum seems to have hit a nerve in some of my Orthodox brothers. Interesting.

I will attempt to reply to several of you (who directly mentioned me by name) but would like to first make a blanket statement.

I would request that before others attack my call of the Orthodox to "come home" that you please look at my original posting in its entirety.


To Serge:
Quote:
"Kurt, the more I see your posts, the more I wish byzcath.org had a filter option. Your mixture of condescending liberalism and condescending old-fashioned Uniatism...is nauseating...."

I hope that you will give me at least three or four posts before you wish to censor me like Kurt. I am but a poor Eastern Catholic who loves the Church and our Pope.


To Brendan:
Quote:
"We pray, instead, for unity -- that we may all be one again.... I think that your comment, however, points to the continued danger of the Eastern Catholic Churches, and why the Orthodox continue to be wary of them."

Your argument between "coming home" and "unity" seems to be a battle of semantics. I don't like to waste time in that arena. If you would rather I call and pray for a "unity" of my Orthodox brothers to the Catholic Church, then so be it. Also, I'm not sure what danger the Orthodox fear from a humble Catholic discussing his faith? If the fear is that a Catholic could lead an Orthodox to convert by dialog alone, then that is a separate question to which I do not have time to address in this answer.


JoeS:
Quote:
"...more Roman Catholics would know of our traditions I will continue to pray for them to "come home."

Thank you. It would be great if many of the Pro-Choice Roman Catholics did in fact "come home" so that they would not be Catholics in name alone. Your prayers are necessary and I thank you for them.

FINAL NOTE: It is not my intent to engage in Orthodox bashing. I love my brothers in the Orthodox church and like Serge, who has ByzCath friends, I have friends that are Orthodox. Also, Serge, I have visited your web page several times. It is well done and I appreciate your support for the unborn. Every statement against abortion is helpful in ending the holocaust in the Womb.

Erik

Thanks, Erik, and welcome. I just wanted to teach, not attack you. Kurt has been antagonizing Orthodox-oriented Byzantine Catholics here for quite some time and has become very tiresome. (There have been bad-mannered Orthodox writers here too.) You, on the other hand, are humble and honest.

Serge

<A HREF="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus�</A>

Kurt,

Alternative name: the servant of the Churches who lives in Rome

Joy!

I know some folks will poop, but I've heard: Papsky Polsky.. (just a joke, please don't send mail bombs!!)

And I love this man. Any bishop who can be served pierogi, cabbage and noodles, and a mess of vodka has got to be my best friend. Cause I love them all.)

Blessings! (A cabbage and vodka loving Greek from the Mother Church!)

SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!
SLAVA NA VIKI BOHU!

Just a reminder that a filter on the site could work both ways....

mark

Just a reminder that a filter on the site could work both ways....

I don�t have a problem with that, though if someone really, really disagrees with me or I am wrong about something, a private e-mail before filtering me, explaining where I might have gone wrong, would be appreciated.

My choice for our name for the Pope... since today is the Julian-calendar day for St Leo, a phrase from the Byzantine Rite pops into my head... �Pope of Rome� (Papa Rimskij)! (Something all Orthodox, including ROCOR, use.) Short, sweet, traditional and we can agree to disagree like ladies and gentlemen about his role in the universal Church until the differences are ironed out and reconciliation is a reality.

Serge

<a href="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus�</a>

Kurt wrote:

A careful reading of Balamand does not preclude a Catholic call for all Christians to join the corporal unity of the Church through the ministry of the Universal Pastor,

Never to fear, my friend. All Christians are in the unity of the Universal Pastor...the Lord Jesus Christ.

Glory to Thee, O Lord!

Never to fear, my friend. All Christians are in the unity of the Universal Pastor... the Lord Jesus Christ.

I chor poj�t: AMIN�! In a limited way true of all who accept Jesus as their Saviour and believe He is the Second Person of the Trinity, and definitely true of those of us in the apostolic, Catholic, Orthodox Churches.

Serge

<a href="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus�</a>

"Not only did the Metropolitan not want to have a Divine Liturgy ceremony, he asked that the installation be moved to a Sunday, or be conducted during a Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts. The Apostolic Nuncio refused this request and insisted that it be done as scheduled."

The source is not verified, yet, although, the source would not intentionally mislead me.

If anyone has any more info on whether the Liturgy was in English, I would appreciate more info. That would be such a major step forward for our Church.

An Orthodox Oriented Byzantine Catholic

As an alternative to "Universal Pastor", maybe we could try "Ecumenical Patriarch". They have similar meanings and I'm sure that fellow in Istanbul won't mind.

Yes, yes, I know what YOUR name for the Pope is; I was asking what OUR name for him should be.

"First Pastor" and "Servant of All the Churches" (which would seem to be the same as 'Ecumencial Servant' or 'Universal Servant') seem to be fitting phrases, as some of our communion have suggested.

Possibily "The Pope" is acceptable to Byzantine Catholics.

K.

How about what he was for almost a 1000 years and meant to be....Patriarch of Rome!

Yes, yes, I know what YOUR name for the Pope is; I was asking what OUR name for him should be.

I wish this thing had a FILTER.

Of course I included the Byzantine Catholics when I said �our�. After all, when BCs celebrate the Divine Liturgy, he is called �the Pope of Rome� just like Popes are called on Orthodox liturgical calendars to this day.

�The Pope� is fine as shorthand but out of respect for the Copts and their Pope, Shenouda III, perhaps �Pope of Rome� is the proper title.

Serge

<a href="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus�</a>

Kurt-

I am not sure what church you belong to, but as Rusnak already stated, in all Byz-
Catholic churches (Melkite, Ruthenian, Ukrainian) he is called the POPE OF ROME,
not Holy Father, that would be the head of the Trinity, i.e. God, or Sumpreme Ponitff, That sounds like some special sauce you put on a hmaburger, or something.

I heard on Catholic Radio last week that the "HOLY FATHER could forgive the sins of the world" . . . really, I am, by reason of the Union of Brest in 1596, a Catholic, but where do they get these guys?

Keep it simple, he is the Pope of Rome.

AMiHb !!!

Robert,

I ask the question what is a good term for Eastern Catholics to refer to the ministry we receive from this office. I appreciate your honest answer, which you find a polite way in saying he should have no ministry and that my Church should be liquidated. That certainly does settle the issue.

Rusank is even more sutble in making the same point. By insisting his word "OUR" includes all Byzantine Christians, he suggests that we Eastern Catholics under current circumstances properly have no relationship with Dr. Wojtyla other than that which the Orthodox have -- again, a polite and indirect way of saying liquidation.

K.



[This message has been edited by Kurt (edited 03-05-2001).]