www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Vote: "Christians of the true faith" or "orthodox Christians"?

Thanks, Incognitus for the background. It would be interesting to see what a scientific poll would come up with on this.

For those of us who favor the traditional phrasing, what can we do to encourage its revival?

Well, that depends. Clergy can simply use the correct term. Lay people might try, first, mobilizing support on the parish level, second, writing numerous letters (all of them courteously worded) to the bishops (note the plural) and third, writing similar letters to the relevant people in Rome. The more letters the better - the letters may not always be read, but they will always be counted!

Incognitus

At the Ukrainian Liturgy I attended yesterday in St. Louis the wording was "orthodox Christians." The missal was the 1988 Millennial Missal from the UGCC.

Well if the Orthodox have anything to say about it , it should have to be the longest, most descriptive term, AND liturgically speaking.. , you should have to take a second breath. Ahhh, let's see now. Let's try, "an Orthodox True beleiver of the One Holy Catholic Apostolic faith once delivered to the Saints of Light thru the Grace of God by the Holy Spirit". Of course this sounds to me like the Presbyterian minister who I talked to a year or so ago, who was in association with the 'Orthodox' Presbyterian sect. When I asked him of their theology of the Blessed Virgin, he said something to the effect of having no such thing. To which I asked where they had the audacity to use the very word "orthodox' in relation to their schismatic Prot theology. To which he justified it as 'orthodox' protestanism, of the Calvinistic kind. Whoa , boy, no that is some confusion. Translated, it would be..." 'orthodox' heterodoxy of the anti-catholic theology of the Reform branch of the Protestant 'wing' of the Western church of the universal church of Christ"...! IS that enough confusion for one night. Oh, yeah, and what was the name for the 'Author of Confusion'..? Is it not the same spiritual wolf who seeks those whom he can devour..? Some punning here, some truth, figure it out yerself, mik +

One can easily find references to "orthodox Calvinism" and "orthodox Lutheranism". In neither case does the adjective "orthodox" refer to Orthodoxy as most of us who take part in discussions here would understand the word. That's why the capitalization makes a difference.

Incognitus

It is even used in cricket to decribe some bowling actions. Mind you in this country it is not unusual to hear Orthodox and Eastern rite Priests exchanging cricket scores in due season .

ICXC
NIKA

I believe you. The one issue that will bring even many priests to the point of serious anger is the hint that one should eliminate or make scarce the pews. When one gets this reaction one knows one has come to the truth.

The truth hurts but it sets one free.

CDL

Dear Incognitus,

In the U.S., there are "Orthodox Presbyterian" parishes . . .

Friends of mine who saw this e-mailed me to ask if this was a "Presbyterian rite" of Orthodoxy!

There actually was an attempt at developing an "Eastern Rite Presbyterianism" in western Canada to convert Ukrainians in the 30's.

They developed an iconostasis - but with no icons . . .

Yech . . .
Alex

Actually the Eastern-Rite Presbyterians developed about 20 years before that - I once went through their service-book and hymnal, both of which are hilarious. To this day the United Church of Canada is quite touchy about the whole affair - as well they might be.

The last parish of this bizarre combination finally joined the Ukrainian Greek Orthodox Church of Canada about 45 years ago.

More information can be found in John Bodrug's memoirs. I've been told that Vivian Oleandar has done or plans to do a book about it, but I'm not really in touch.

Incognitus

Oddly enough our priest was an Orthodox Presbyterian before he converted. He actually converted while attending a Reformed Seminary. The joke is of course that he was predestined to be Orthodox.

My Mother�s family and my maternal Grandmother were Presbyterian�s, although of the less rigorous variety. The popular drink on my Mom�s side was something they called the 7 and 7 (basically Seven Up and Seagram�s Seven), but the same drink is also known as the �Presbyterian�. To make an �Orthodox Presbyterian� you simply substitute Vodka (potato or rye, doesn�t matter) for the Whiskey (or Whisky to a Canadian).

Andrew

Dear Friends,

I also had an Anglican Book of Common Prayer . . . translated into Ukrainian . . .

A number of Western Rites that either did become Orthodox or BELIEVED they had ( ) kept their church name but added "Orthodox" to it i.e. "Orthodox Old Catholics" "Orthodox Greek Catholic" and even "Orthodox Anglicans" etc.

Alex

Some info that was given to me by a Prot pastor, was that in his denomination he was counciled that as a young new pastor, he ought to join the Lodge (freemasonry). From him I learned, (he was very forthright and by this time middle age) the extent of the infiltration of the freemasons in Protestantism, esp amoung the Presbyterians...since they started in Scotland. And one of the 'branches' of them is the so-called 'Scottish Rite', the other is the 'York Rite'. There is much, unabashed literature at Gettysburg Battlefield on the Masons and the American Civil War. Some have even speculated that the war was really a scirmish between the two for control of us or a. Note here, that I do not have hard info, but if one was inclined to..! Just some thoughts, mik

I voted for Pyrohy of the True Faith, or just plain Byzantine Pierogies.

"I voted for Pyrohy of the True Faith, or just plain Byzantine Pierogies."

Is Outrage! In Holy Russia we always had exclusively ORTHODOX PYROHY. On Old Calendar, of course.

Incognitus