www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall New Bishop in Jerusalem is Jewish!

For the first time since the Apostle James served as bishop of Jerusalem, the Holy City has a Jewish bishop! Benedictine Abbot Jean-Baptiste Gourion was ordained as the new bishop at the Catholic church in Kiryat Ye�arim, above the Israeli Arab village of Abu Ghosh near Jerusalem.


http://israeltoday.co.il/headlines/headlines.asp?CatID=7&ArticleID=910

I would think that the new bishop is Catholic, he maybe Israeli.

For the most part today, doesn't the word jewish mean one who is a member of a religion?


David, the Byzantine Catholic

David,

I thought it was a little awkard too. I suppose they mean that he is of Jewish decent. But he does refer to his not giving up his Jewish faith. I have heard that from so many converted Jews, to them the Catholic and Jewish faith are one.

Especially a few that have visited our church. They are totally in awe when they see the alter.

Maybe our esteemed Sharon will chime in and explain!

Bob Fishman was on Catholic Answers Live yesterday. He is a Jewish convert to Catholicism....

The title of this show was To Be Catholic Is To Be Jewish.

You can listen to the show and/or download it at "CATHOLIC ANSWERS LIVE" [catholic.com] .


David, the Byzantine Catholic

Many early Christians were both Jewish and Christian (evidence Saint Paul, who even after his conversion described himself as a Jew). So far as I am aware, this has never been forbidden, and there is no reason why a Jew (who is then baptized as a Christian) has to cease to be Jew.

Judaism is not an error or a heresy one needs to renounce upon accepting Christ. Jesus was a Jew, and so there can be no error or sin in being a Jew, or practicing Judaism. So a Jew, who becomes a baptized Christian, is free to continue to practices of their fathers.

Though Jewish Christianity died out not long after the destruction of the temple, and the dispersion, there is no reason why it is forbidden. (although I will be grateful for correction, if I am wrong on this point.)

There were important Jewish Christians, who became Carmelite monks on Mt. Carmel, yet never ceased to identify themselves with "the people" and who fought to retain the Isreali citizenship. Some were "concentration camp survivors" and part of the post war immigration that led to the foundation of the state.

No surprises here . . .

A Jewish convert, in answer to the question by other Jews WHY???, said: to be a Catholic is to be a "completed" Jew!

I believe the Hebrew Catholic Association, an organization of Jewish converts to Catholicism, melds many Jewish religious observances with their Catholic practices.

AmdG

David,

The website for the Hebrew Catholic Association is here.
http://hebrewcatholic.org/index.html

This is a small group in Israel. They are Catholics of Jewish descent that celebrate the Roman Rite in Hebrew and maint Jewish ritual and law. They do describe themselves as completed Jews and their ultimate goal is to be recognized as a Rite and to have their own jurisdcition, which looks possible given that they now have their own bishop.

Fr. Deacon Lance

So in many ways as it is described and the fact that they have a bishop, this is part of restoration in a sence, intential or unintential.

Hieormonk Elias wrote:
Though Jewish Christianity died out not long after the destruction of the temple, and the dispersion, there is no reason why it is forbidden.

Since it was in existance then, and is again as
Fr. Deacon Lance wrote:
This is a small group in Israel. They are Catholics of Jewish descent that celebrate the Roman Rite in Hebrew and maint Jewish ritual and law. They do describe themselves as completed Jews and their ultimate goal is to be recognized as a Rite and to have their own jurisdcition, which looks possible given that they now have their own bishop.

Many years to the bishop of Jerusalem!

This could be a very difficult position to take, considering that the majority of Catholics in the Holy Land are from the Arabic culture, but it seems like a legitimate development of the church in an Israeli setting.

I think that Christians of a Jewish heritage are doubly blessed. While it is often said that being a Catholic completes the Judaism I would also like to submit that being Jewish makes for a more complete Christian. In truth, we are not fully complete until we rest in the arms of our Lord, being more fully connected with our own Jewish roots may help us there.

A quote from the Archbishop of Paris, Jean Marie Cardinal Lustiger:
�I was born Jewish and so I remain, even if that�s unacceptable for many�. For me, the vocation of Israel is bringing light to the goyim. That�s my hope and I believe that Christianity is the means for achieving it.�

There is a precedent for having a Jewish-Christian hierarchy for an exclusively Jewish community, but bishop Gourion maintains that he will be open to all, Jews and Gentiles alike. In India we have an entire Catholic diocese that maintains a connection to it�s own Jewish past. It�s approved endogamic policy is intended to maintain that cultural link and they do mix many inherited Old Testament Jewish practices into their lives.

You will find the Knanya community here: http://www.ghg.net/knanaya/kottayam/kottayam.htm

Of course, the experience of living in a group like the Knanya can be (and probably is) very different from the experience of coming from a thoroughly non-Christian western oriented Jewish community.

I hope and pray that this Israeli church structure has great success bringing the fullness of the faith to the people of Israel and the world.

Michael

Deacon Lance,

Why?

Spanish Catholics celebrate the Latin Liturgy in Spanish; French Catholics do so in French; non-Byzantine Slovak Catholics do so in Slovak. The celebration of the Latin Church's Liturgy in the vernacular of a nation is the hallmark of the post-VII era.

That they have a bishop of their heritage is a happy coincidence that would not represent a rarity, except that they are themselves small in numbers as yet. Otherwise, as is the case in the hierarchies of most nations, it would be the norm not the exception.

I see no factor that would argue for a Rite, a Usage, or any particular or personal prelature. Anglicans returning to communion with Rome, as discussed in another thread, have a much stronger argument to be made for a Rite or prelature.

Many years,

Neil

Michael,

You're right, analogy to the Knanaites fails. The Holy See's decision in the early 20th century, to erect a personal jurisdiction at Kottayam for the Knaiaites within the (then) Syro-Malabarese Rite, was indeed based on their unique liturgical ritual (and the endogamous nature of their community). However, it was predicated on the fact that they had preserved this for 15.5 centuries (since Knai Thomman arrived on the Malabar coast with 72 Jewish Christian families in 345 AD). That heritage cannot be compared to a newly-established community which hasn't yet got a heritage within its new-found Catholicity to which it can point and which is probably less likely than the Knaiaites to maintain an endogamous identity.

It is notable that no such separate canonical jurisdiction was established for the smaller Knaiaite community within the Syro-Malankara Rite (nor within the Malankarese's counterpart sister Churches, the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church or the Autocephalous Malankara Orthodox Church, Catholicsate of the East.)

Many years,

Neil

Fr Elias,

Yours is a very keen observation. Although a majority might take offense at your words and point to the Apostolic Council in Jerusalem (and Paul's condemnation of the Judaizers), this may in fact be a misunderstanding of the New Testament.

The Jerusalem Council "condemned" the requirement
for Gentiles to become Jews in order to convert to Christianity. The Jewish expression of the faith was maintained, and the Gentile expression was seen as an equally valid tradition. Even when Paul challenged Peter,he challenged the requirement that the Gentiles follow the Jewish tradition (I guess our spiritual forbears missed this nuance when the latinization began.)

Dear David,

As far as I know, 'Jewish' refers to a religion but also to a distinct heritage of people. You will hear of Russian Jews, Greek Jews, American Jews, and Israeli Jews. You hear of 'observant' Jews, and 'non-observant Jews', of 'liberal' Jews, and 'conservative' Jews, of 'reformed' Jews and 'Orthodox' Jews.

It is very important for Jews to refer to their heritage, though their cultures and religious outlooks may be different.

I have and always will love my Jewish brethren, for their heritage is that of my Lord and Saviour's!

In Christ,
Alice

Neil,

Why? Because they want it. Whether they get it is another question, but since their episcopal vicar is now a bishop it seems to me things are headed that way. Why do converting Anglicans have a stronger case? With the Anglicans we are talking about liturgical usage, with the Hebrew Catholics we are talking about a way of life, keeping kosher, Jewish feasts, Jewish law. They are not just Catholics who happen to celebrate in Hebrew. To what extent they keep Jewish practice, i.e. whether they would be consider equivalent to Orthodox, Conservative, or Reform Judaism I don't know, but it seems if they are to survive they would need a codified Rite that laid down what was expected.

Fr. Deacon Lance