www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall ANIMAL ICONS?!?

Well this is the type of thing English aristocrats would do for fun, paying iconographers to paint their pets, being such lovers of animals. It's as if the Westminster dog show became apostolic. I hope she doesn't make dog-faced St. Christopher Icons as well. Since I did not grow up with this tradition I am not fond of having my saints face protrayed as a dog..although it does keep me humble. Animals may be intelligent but they are not saints and can no way be held to the standard of humans, having an animal as a symbol or in the background is fine but to be a Saint is impossible. I believe they have vegetative souls..different levels..that's all I know. I'm thankful to be part of the Church with the fullness of truth.

What has England and dog shows got to do with this stuff? People with old money tend to manage it and not thow it around who ever they are, even on this stuff.

If the Crufts dog show which will be held this year in Birmingham in the English Midlands very, soon has any claim to fame it will be because of it's proximity to the Edgbaston Cricket Ground, home to the Warwickshire County Cricket Club which to some of us is a very sacred site indeed. Now that is a long sentence. The other of course is Lords (many of us pronounce Lourdes the same way) in London. To be on the safe side we vernerate both sites equally. As England is Mary's dowry it is OK.

Now this off the wall stuff is American (Californian if one wants to further pinpoint the problem), so sorry no one is putting their hands up to claim as share in this one. This one is all yours.

ICXC
NIKA

This show how far the Episcoplains have denegrated (notice I did not say Church), and to those with any sense it is laughable.
Stephanos I

It's a pity! I've been trying to see those icons, but I can't get them on my computor. Now I really wanted to see them so I could have a good laugh. I just love the 'rediculous'.

Well just thinking about dogs being made into icons, had me laughing while reading the posts. Sorry if I'm offending anyone, but aren't you people taking it a little too serious?

Zenovia

Dear Henry you posted the following:

"GOD, enlarge within us the sense of fellowship with all living things, our brothers, the animals, to whom thou gave the earth as their home in common with us. We remember with shame that in the past we have exercised the high dominion of man with ruthless cruelty, so that the voice of the earth, which should have gone up to thee in song, has been a groan of travail. May we realize that they live not for us alone but for themselves and for thee and that they love the sweetness of life.

I say:

How beautiful! We seem to forget that there was a time when animals were severely mistreated. I believe it was St. Seraphim of Sarov that stopped a man from beating his horse in Russia.

Zenovia

Alright. I'll say it's californian anglophiles who've read too much James Herriot.

I also agree that animals must be treated respectfully when possible. So long as they aren't Tigers, the former symbol of incarnate evil, eating over 100,000 Indians in the 1800's alone. I admire the halal and kosher laws for meat. I will try to never stalk an animal out of entertainment value if I need/desire meat to eat. I would pray over it and kill it quickly not take pleasure to watch it die slow. Which is what I think a few hunters do. If I'm wrong let me know.

That is a very praiseworthy and reasonable philosophy, Criostoir. Humans should always do whatever they can to prevent animals from needless suffering. There is nothing sadder than the sight of a little critter who's been injured and doesn't understand why.

I wondered how long it would take before someone brought up the usual tiresome Anti-California take on things (Hast thou ever been here???) :rolleyes:

Gosh, but the fur is really flying here . . .

Alex

(sigh) Okay, here goes nothin' !!

I grew up in Missouri and lived there till I was 22. Then I moved to California and have lived here till now. (We don't have to get into how many years that is ... details, details ... )

And granted I am but one lone voice crying out in the wilderness.

However, FYI I met more wacko animal rights types (and other types of wackos - like New Age, Wiccan, etc.) in Missouri than I've ever met in California. Not that they're not out here, of course, but they tend to be quieter and more integrated with the rest of the community.

The answer is blowing in the wind...Yes! Bin there got the Tshirt. Yes I have family there and friends. Southern California is a most interesting place.

ICXC
NIKA

Animal icons? This one is frightening:

http://www.episcopalchurch.org/images/EL_ASAnIcGran.jpg

The sad part is she is talented but has no idea what she is doing. There are some nice icons on the website but she has not got a clue.

ICXC
NIKA

Okay, but to be fair, the Episcopalian Church has a very different view on what constitutes sainthood. They don't consecrate saints in the same way that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches do, for the purposes of venerating them and praying to them; it's more of a "this person did good things, they're a good example to follow" mentality.

So yes, perhaps it seems a little silly to us but I don't think the artist is being intentionally blasphemous or trying to insult anyone. She (and I haven't even checked but somehow I am sure the artist is a she! ) just read a book about icons, was impressed, thought it was an interesting art form and decided to give it a shot. It happens.

Dear Dolly,

And it is possible to write icons of one's parents and others who gave a great Christian example to us etc.

The Anglican churches have undergone a development in the saints department over the years - and it also depends on whether one is "Low and lazy" or "Middle and hazy" or "High and crazy!"

The "High's" consider King Charles I to be a true Saint and Martyr and will call others "Blessed" as in "Blessed William Laud" or "Blessed Nicholas Ferrar" or "Holy Mr. Herbert" and the like.

There is an Anglican monastic establishment down the street from my parish church and they have their founder, James Otis Sargent Huntington, in their litany of the Saints and refer to him as "Holy James Huntington - pray for us."

There is also an Anglican order of Sisters who run a medical establishment who have even painted an icon of their Foundress, Hannah Combs, in their chapel.

I tend to speak up for the High Church people as I don't know anyone from the other two levels.

Alex