www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall is anyone else afraid of this ?

In the UK, there is a move to increase the use of security cameras.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/transport/Story/0,,1725229,00.html

Right now, they are used to monitor compliance with traffic laws and to observe people in public places (like street corners, train stations, etc.) for wanted criminals, suspicious activities, etc. Now, there is a move to use cameras to check if drivers are using a cell phone or not wearing a seat belt.

I know this seems petty, and I know it's good to be on the lookout for terrorists and fugitives and so on, but I have to ask: where will all this government spying on its own people stop: in the U.K., in the U.S. and elsewhere?

-- John

I can't see how they could do it. They would need to have cameras at a much lower level to start with to be able to see if some person is not wearing a seat belt or talking on the phone. I must admit that when I see such people I always wish I was younger and a policeman . the costs will kill this before it starts.

I hope you're right, Pavel.

But when governments get lots of money and lots of power, and when they think there is no higher law, they often do weird and stupid and immoral things.

And inconsistent things, too. While there is big push to have the government spy on people in order to cut down on traffic deaths and to catch terrosists, there is in Holland something else. They are legalizing the euthansia of children who have incurable conditions which cause extreme pain. http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/mar/06030601.html

So, for the modern secular state, which believes that right and wrong are whatever we say it is, it's ok to spy on everyone to save human lives, but it's then ok to kill human lives if they suffer ? Madness.

-- John

There have always been governments all though history who have done the wrong thing. Nothing new there and they dont need cameras to do it either if they want to do it again. I was most impressed that they had pics of the bombers in London when they brought London to a standstill and killed all those people not so long ago. Here in Australia in Business Class in planes where we get silver service. We no longer get metal knives and get plastic ones in their place. Mind you we have a metal fork and spoon. Camera on the street and table knives on planes can all be used for the wrong reasons by individuals or groups.

Pavel, thank you for your thoughts. And, they are correct. But, I still cannot shake this sense that the world is spinning madly because governments and their people have jettisoned any controlling sense that there is a higher basis to law than ourselves.

What is the solution? I don't know.

Theocracy isn't a solution. It can produce tyranny. But complete secularism isn't the solution either. Either way, people can cause horrible things when they believe that nothing is above them -- either because they have substituted themselves (or the State) for God, or because they don't believe in God, or because they believe that God doesn't matter.

Psychologically, people tend to flee pain and seek pleasure. And yet, not everything that feels good is good. And, not every pain is bad. And there has to be *something* to guide both governments and individuals in what is right and what is wrong -- something that is beyond what we human beings decree, some moral authority beyond our sense of pain and pleasure. Otherwise, governments and people --sooner or later-- end up deciding that death and pain are the ultimate evils and feeling good is the ultimate good. And then they try to minimize death and suffering in their lives and maximizing feeling good. But they often end up maximizing death and suffering and minimizing feeling good because they miss the point. It's not pain or even death that is ultimate evil, and it�s not feeling good that is ultimate good. It's selfishness that is ultimate evil --the pride that cares about no one or nothing but ourselves-- and it�s selfless love that is ultimate good.

It's easy to see all that in tyrannical governments that are purely secular and only care about the State: the fascists and communists come to mind.

But this can also be seen in our "free" democracies. There are endless public debates about outlawing tobacco, spying on people in public places, killing people who have incurable pain, and so on. But, instead of more peace and freedom and pleasure, we are getting dead babies through abortion, dead kids and adults by euthanasia, wars, and slavery to our passions.

Look, I'm not against reasonable measures by governments to protect security and peace. But unless there is peace within the human heart, by recognizing God is above our hearts and must be within our hearts too, all of these external efforts will ultimately tend to create discord and suffering.

We can't give what we don't have. And if we don't have peace within our hearts, our external efforts will reflect that. And if we do have peace within our hearts, our external lives will reflect that too.

I'm rambling, and I'm sorry. I got annoyed and a little afraid when I saw the article about more government cameras to spy on people. I got blown away when I read the article about legalizing euthanasia for kids. Maybe I should give up reading the news for Lent.

But, these stories seem to encapsulate what is going on in all of human life. Unless there is the asceticism of the spirit -- the asceticism of humility, that says there is God and that He really does matter and that He matters more than our pain and pleasure, because God is good and He loves mankind, because God is selfless Love and Life-- unless we recognize all of that in our hearts, it seems that we're not going to have more peace and security and freedom in our lives. It seems that we will just end up with more dead kids, more enslavement to our passions and fears, and governments that take away freedom in the name of protecting freedom.

The Byzantine Empire, from which we get the Byzantine faith, was a theocracy. I don't advocate returning to theocracy. But I do think that individuals and governments must somehow recognize the sovereignty and justice and mercy and compassion of God in their hearts -- or we will simply become our own slaves.

-- John

I think you have the seeds here of the answer to your own question. People are over seeking simplicity in their own lives and seeking way to slow dow their otherwise frantic lives. Things like Slow food for example. Making time for their spiritual life. Putting some feeling of being in control of their own lives by doing these and other similar things. We always live in the end times, or we should live like it. The sects try to say this sign means this and that sign means something worse (I notice they are always depressing signs and readings). Christ is our Light and the Great Feast of Easter reminds us that Death has been destroyed and has no hold on us.

ICXC
NIKA

I have nothing to fear from cameras on the roads. I don't own a car. Ha, ha, ha.

Dear John you wrote:

"The Byzantine Empire, from which we get the Byzantine faith, was a theocracy. I don't advocate returning to theocracy. But I do think that individuals and governments must somehow recognize the sovereignty and justice and mercy and compassion of God in their hearts -- or we will simply become our own slaves."

I say:

Our nation, and the concept of democracy was something new in the world. Until then, it was believed that God chose kings and emporors to rule, and they were annointed as such with holy oil. I know from what I've read, that our Founding Fathers believed firmly that without God, democracy cannot work. They wanted a nation where the rule will not be by birth, but by nobility of spirit.

Contrary to the propaganda of our liberal present day 'secularists', God was continuously mentioned by all of the Founding Fathers. It was so conspiruous that I have to assume it was to counteract the lack of a ligitimate 'annointed' king.

Zenovia

Amen, Zenovia ! I can't help but thinking of George Washington's "Farewell Address" as a prime example of this.

-- John