www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Among the Pagan Ladies

Among the Pagan Ladies
By George Neumayr
Published 4/26/2004 12:09:14 AM

Excerpt:

WASHINGTON -- Sunday's "March for Women's Lives" made maximum usage of euphemism, invoking "choice" whenever marchers meant killing. They, for example, used placards to convey the lament that Barbara Bush hadn't killed her son in the womb. "If Only Barbara Bush Had Choice," read one sign. "Barbara Chose Poorly," read another. Marchers were also disappointed that the Pope's mother hadn't killed him in the womb. "The Pope's Mother Had No Choice," said a sign.
Click here to read the entire article. [spectator.org]

Please pray for these people!

Christ is Risen!
Truly He is Risen!

Prayer for Enemies
Lord Jesus Christ, Who didst command us to love our enemies, and those who defame and injure us, and to pray for them and forgive them; Who Thyself didst pray for Thine enemies, who crucified thee: grant us, we pray, the spirit of Christian reconciliation and meekness, that we may heartily forgive every injury and be reconciled with our enemies. Grant us to overcome the malevolence and offences of people with Christian meekness and true love of our neighbor. We further beseech Thee, O Lord, to grant to our enemies true peace and forgiveness of sins; and do not allow them to leave this life without true faith and sincere conversion. And help us repay evil with goodness, and to remain safe from the temptations of the devil and from all the perils which threaten us, in the form of visible and invisible enemies. Amen.


Yes, indeed, pray for these people....

Gaudior, heartsick

Dear Administrator,

Yes, that is pretty bad.

But what is worse, Sir, is how the Catholic Church itself is giving tacit approval to abortion by refusing to censure the real "hero" of that Washington March - John Kerry.

Perhaps you might wish to ask, on all our behalf, if the Kerry Campaign would like to join us in prayer for those poor souls who said those things in Washington the other day?

If you decide to do that, I would recommend that you begin by contacting that Paulist chapel - perhaps you might catch Kerry in a Holy Hour there?

Sir, I understand where those pagan ladies are coming from.

I don't understand where the Church and John Kerry are coming from.

They are the ones who need our prayers, first and foremost - let's not be smug here.

And the bishops who refuse to take a stand on this, showing themselves to be, once again, ecclesial gutless wonders.

Something about taking the log out of our own eye before examing the vision of our neighbour.

Have a great day!

Alex

Dear Esteemed Administrator,

After reading the excerpt you posted, my stomach literally turned in sorrow and disbelief.

This is the kind of 'in your face' shocking rally for sinful causes which sadden me greatly.

How sad it is that these women have come so far from God.

If they really want shock, I was in D.C. the day before this rally, and on a van parked somewhere near the White House there was a horrific and graphic photo of a baby during the procedure known as 'late term abortion'. I hope that they saw it, yet something tells me that their hearts are so hardened and angry that it wouldn't make one iota of a difference.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the living God, have mercy on us all.

Alex,

Yes, John Kerry should absolutely be refused Communion. +Arinze's remark about how the Catholic bishops in the U.S. should handle Kerry is, in my mind, a cop-out, and is unfortunately representative of the Church concerning this issue. Of course, there are always heroes in our midst, like His Excellency Archbishop Raymond +Burke of St. Louis. He should be the Archbishop of Boston!

Kerry is drinking and eating judgment upon his own soul, willingly putting his eternal salvation in grave danger. Sadly, a huge number of Catholics do this every Sunday by receiving Communion unworthily, as St. Paul speaks of it to the Corinthians.

Truly, this March is an awful event, a complete and aggressive attack on the dignity of human life. We should love these people nonetheless and pray for their conversion.

Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, dona nobis pacem.

Logos Teen

I know I am across the Big Pond

BUT

Everywhere I look now there are comments about these 'Catholic ' politicians .

Frankly I cannot understand it - when are the Hierarchy going to do something about it - it's no good saying it's up to each Bishop .

People are now laughing at how this man is 'getting away with it '.

Cannot the Hierarchy see they are losing all credibility ?

a very sorrowful Anhelyna

Alex,

Thanks for your post.

Yes, it is a difficult situation for the Church. If she had been clear all along that those who reject Catholic moral teaching should not approach the Chalice then the bishops would not be in the situation they are currently in. I disagree with your premise that refusing to deny someone the Eucharist equates tacit approval of sin.

Senator Kerry publicly supported this pro-abortion march, so he is already included in those I am asking us to pray for. There is no smugness on my part and I rather resent your implication. One should not require the Church to be full of sinless and perfect people before speaking to the society about moral issues.

But you would be correct in suggesting that we also pray for our bishops, that they may always witness Christ regardless of the cost.

Admin

Mentioning the Catholic Church in the same vein as John Kerry, although he is a Presidential candidate, seems to convey that the Church and Kerry are one and the same. :rolleyes:

Which is a fallacy! Let the Bishops deal with it and, hopefully, they are not as "gutless" as they are being negatively portrayed hereabouts.

We know for a fact that John Kerry and his ilk are in our midst!

Can somebody point to us where that "perfect" and "sinless" Church is, again?

AmdG

Dear Administrator,

If the Church affirms that abortion is wrong and that politicians who promote abortion should be denied communion, and then refuses to follow through with this - what kind of message is the Church sending?

Certainly, the Church condemns abortion and regards as abhorrent that politicians calling themselves Catholics or Christians would deliberately promote it.

But the Church cannot condemn politicians in general as part of its public pronouncement process and then refuse to deal with the issue of someone destined to be your head of state some day (you lucky people).

Surely this reflects in some way on how strongly the Church really does believe in what she teaches.

The issue here is ultimately not John Kerry, nor is it those pagan ladies as mentioned in the article you brought forward.

The issue here is, once again, the issue of church leadership by our bishops. And, once again, they lack the courage to take the kind of stand that hopefully they know they should be taking.

As for the sin issue, no one is perfect and we are all sinners.

But there is a difference here when it comes to John Kerry.

As an example, an individual Catholic may be sorely tempted to commit the sin of masturbation.

That Catholic may struggle privately to overcome it, pray and fast a great deal, attend confession regularly and slowly make progress to completely eradicating that sin from his or her life.

There is a difference between that kind of sin and inclination to sinfulness that is always accompanied by sorrow and repeated efforts to repent - and the individual who would support masturbation as a matter of human rights, normal sexual development, public policy and the like.

In the latter case, the individual involved has NO intention of repenting and NO intention of amending his or her life - only affirming as good what the Church affirms as bad.

To speak of John Kerry as being a "sinner" like other sinners in the Catholic Church is simply silly.

Would he promote abortion rights if he considered that abortion is truly murder of the unborn?

No, he would not. He would be opposing abortion as he would oppose what happened in the Holocaust and other genocides etc.

Abortion for Kerry is not something that he will eventually repent of "if we pray for him" etc.

He has no intention of repenting of his party's public policies as a politician and as your future president.

And one would hope that such public sinners who consider what the Church and the Bible consider to be a deadly sin - a matter of conscience and human rights and women's issues - one would hope that such would lose their right to call themselves "Catholics" in good standing and to approach Communion with such convictions on their soul.

Then what does the Church stand for otherwise?

I apologise for using the word "smug," but I thought that with this crisis situation in Catholic church leadership that compromises all Catholics, you would have recommended urgent prayer for our bishops and those erring Catholics who should know better, rather than for those who don't.

But I see on EWTN that the RC bishops will establish a committee to discuss this matter and hopefully it can be resolved without any further smugness on anyone's part . . .

(Do you know why Iconophile calls me "Axel?" Is he a fan of Eddie Murphy's "California Cop" perhaps?)

Alex

Dear Amadeus,

Well, in case you've forgotten, I'm the one who is portraying the bishops that way!

So I don't really understand your argument here.

You are saying we shouldn't be mentioning the Catholic Church and John Kerry etc.

Then you make the rhetorical statement about where the sinless Church is?

What Kerry believes as a private individual is his business - and his confessor's should he choose to tell him.

What Kerry believes as a public person is something altogether different.

He and his party have taken grave sin and turned it into public policy.

This calls for the Catholic bishops to take a stand and they've said they won't, that they don't want to use the Eucharist in this way etc.

Well, this isn't the first time they've messed up. But to back down from their responsibility that should be as clear as the noses on their faces - sheesh!

Perhaps the Administrator is right.

We should pray for those "pagan ladies" - we'll probably get further ahead with them.

Alex

Sorry to disagree with Alex, but we can never be truly certain that another human being will NEVER repent of some particular sin. In fact, we should assume the opposite and pray towards that good end.
More generally: why have the bishops lost their nerve? Because for at least two generations the bishops have seen themselves as CEOs rather than Fathers in God.
Christ is Risen!
Incognitus

Dear Administrator:

Thanks for your posts.
It's very encouraging to see calls for prayers.

Dear Incognitus,

Certainly, we can and should pray for conversion and for all things.

There is, however, a distinction to be drawn between the struggles of a sinner and personal sin - and the very public, political issue of promoting sin i.e. abortion, especially as part of an agenda.

Those who do so are out to show people like us the error of OUR thinking and interpretation of things.

Alex

Dear Friends,

I would like to formally apologise for having given any and all offence to the Administrator here on this thread in particular.

We should all pray for the needs of the Church, especially in these times of confusion and crisis.

May our bishops rise to the occasion and do the right thing at this time.

May we also have the courage to support them in their endeavours.

Alex

I can't read it!

May God have mercy on their souls. So angry, so bitter, that only comes from one place, the darkness of this world.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us sinners.

Pani Rose