www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Why do you attend a BC parish?

Why am I in the BC Church?

Because I strive to be an Orthodox Christian in union with the pope of Rome...to be fully Eastern and fully Catholic.

It feels like a tightrope from time to time, but I pray God gives me the grace to walk it faithfully.

Gordo

I kind of agree with everyone. One thing I have trouble with is not being in communion with my Orthodox brothers and sisters, but at the same time, all I seem to read is Orthodox books, because there certainly aren't any good Byzantine Catholic books. I'm a follower of Archbishop Zhogby's school of philosophy -- why can't we be in double communion?

MizByz:

I have the same perspective as SteveP, but none of the answers to the second question seem to be appropriate. So I can't finish the poll, and can't get the results.

What you mean, e.g., to "go Orthodox"? Does that include RayS and SteveP who would "go to" Orthodox services, or does it mean to be received into Orthodoxy? This is very different than to "go" RC, where no formal reception would be required. To be received into Orthodoxy from the CC one must - effectively or explicitly, depending on the economy applied - renounce the Catholic church.

Teen, whatever it is you glean from the handful of posters here, the fact is that there are vast numbers of canonical Byzantines that practice at RC churches; relative to that number, very few - even including the passers-by - wind up "going" Orthodox.

...................................................

djs,

I have been told that this is the case - that what is required is more than just a profession of the faith of Nicea or a simple "transfer" from one jurisdiction to another. I know that we have discussed over the years the practice of re-Chrismation and in certain cases, re-Ordination or even re-Baptism. (I spoke once with a former Franciscan TOR who joined the Antiochians, and had just been "re-ordained" to the diaconate.) All of these practices seem to run contrary to the (non-binding) agreements of the national and international dialogues.

To be honest, it always appears to me that the Catholic side is far more accomodating to Orthodox sensibilities than the other way around.

A rare case is that of Father Lev Gillet who simply concelebrated his way into Orthodoxy.

Gordo

Dear DJS,

Oh man, and here I thought my questions were worded pretty well... to cover all bases. Guess I need to be more careful next time I start a poll. :rolleyes:

When I said "go Orthodox", I did mean "to be received into the Orthodox Church." Catholics aren't allowed to receive Holy Communion at an Orthodox church unless they become fully Orthodox.

From what I understand, what is required to do this differs among the different Orthodox jurisdictions-- according to what I've read (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong), in ROCOR you must actually be re-baptized, which I wouldn't do in a million years-- I would never deny the efficacy of my RC baptism. To do so would be gravely sinful. In GOARCH, you'd have to be rechrismated, and in OCA, you'd have to go to confession and make a profession of faith.

Honestly, even though I can't stand stand Latin theology, I don't think the Catholic Church is heretical, and if I would have to specifically proclaim that it is, then that could be a real problem.

Personally, I get tired of feeling like I'm standing on a bridge, neither here nor there, understood or accepted by neither the Roman Catholics nor the Orthodox. The Church with which I'm supposed to be in communion is soooo theologically and spiritually different that I really don't feel like I'm in communion with it, if that makes any sense.

I want the full Eastern Christian experience, and not to feel like an Orthodox wanna-be. But it seems that I'm caught in a pickle...

God bless,

Karen

Well, I think this is to be expected really. The difference is not merely one of interpretation, the Roman Catholic church teaches at least two dogmas that are unknown in Orthodoxy. There needs to be some method of addressing that.

Holy Orthodoxy does not officially know whether orders conferred outside the church are valid or not. The concept that one can be outside the church and yet validly ordained is a unique theory to Roman Catholicism. It has given rise to all sorts of vagante-type small groups who take pride in their 'pedigrees'. As has been said many time Orthodoxy knows where the church is, but not where it is not, so as much as one would like to charitably recognize the orders of another church it is not possible to do so.

Interesting that it is not the converts themselves who are offended by these practices.

+T+
Michael

Of course; conversion selects those not offended.

The whole teaching of the Latin Fathers may be found in the East, just as the whole teaching of the Greek Fathers may be found in the West. Rome has given St. Jerome to Palestine. The East has given Cassian to the West and holds in special veneration that Roman of the Romans, Pope Gregory the Great. St. Basil would have acknowledged St. Benedict of Nursia as his brother and heir. St. Macrina would have found her sister in St Scholastica. St. Alexis the "man of God," "the poor man under the stairs," has been succeeded by the wandering beggar, St. Benedict Labre. St. Nicolas would have felt as very near to him the burning charity of St. Francis of Assisi and St. Vincent de Paul. St. Seraphim of Sarov would have seen the desert blooming under Father Charles de Foucauld's feet, and would have called St. Th�r�se of Lisieux "my joy."

-- Archimandite Lev Gillet

That is so beautiful.

-- John

Why is my patron saint, St. Alexis the Man of God, viewed as an "Eastern" saint? I know the East perhaps venerates him more, but he was Roman, from a noble Roman family, born and raised there. Yes, he did move to Edessa until, on command of the Mother of God, moved back to Rome to dwell under the stairs of his parents' house (which is know a Church dedicated to some other saint as well as St. Alexis).

I think he's Western; he's from Rome after all.

Logos Teen

If anyone out there is wondering why 'I would go mainstream Roman Catholic (Novus Ordo Mass)' is not polling well, I may be able to shine a light on part of the reason.

Now, I was going to write a post about some of the craziness going on in today's Roman Catholic church. i.e. liturgical dancers, unusually clad women holding smoking incense bowls, etc. all with a Catholic Cardinal prominently presiding over it all as I had heard of and seen on the web.
But I thought, no one will believe me, they'll think that I am exagerating, etc. Plus no words could do justice to seeing it with ones own eyes.

So I looked high and low for a video clip that had been sent to me in the past of the Los Angeles Catholic Confernece Closing Mass. If this video wasn't so darn funny it would be one the most offensive things I ever saw regarding making a mockery of the Catholic Church. The 'esteemed' Cardinal Mahoney is presiding over this to make it even worse.

This video is beyond craziness, lunancy, embarassing, etc. I can't make this stuff up. I have a few photos from the net of this debacle, but I thought that people might think that I was having fun with photoshop and doctoring the photos because they rise to such a high level of absurdity.

If you are like me you'll laugh but be a bit embarrassed that this is part of the Catholic Church that we Greek Catholics are in union with. I mean a Prince of the Church(Cardinal Mahoney) is presiding over this for crying out loud!

By the way this takes several minutes and a strong stomach to watch, but is well worth it to watch the whole thing.

I don't think that after watching this you will ever wonder why Greek Catholics would rather go to an Orthodox Church than to a novus ordo Roman Catholic one.

enjoy

http://www.qdomine.com/Morality%20video/LA%20Rel%20Ed%20-%202006/lareledcongress06-1.htm

mc

I just watched the video of this Mass. "Interesting" is the most charitable thing I can say about it. It seemed to be

-- 47% theatrical production (dancing, music, lighting, players going into the audience, etc.) It really reminded me of what modern theater companies try to do with their productions, in ordeder to use multi-media and "immersion" of the audience into the production. And, there was applause after the various entertainments.

--47% pep-rally (speeches of happy talk and affirmation --or was that the Gospel reading plus commentary?-- and gushing thanks to the people who made it all possible). I found it interesting that their closing song was "Step into Freedom." It was like the closing for a convention of motivational speakers.

--5% Christian service. Jesus Christ and God were mentioned, a portion of the Gospel was read (by several people), and communion was distributed.

--1% neo-pagan service. There was a barefoot woman, dressed in white, carrying a smoking pot of incense and twirling around with a copy of the Gospel book while the Gospel was being read.

I am so floored by what I saw, I am almost at a loss of what else I can and should say.

All I can add are three points.

First, most Roman Catholic Masses that I have attended are nothing like this. Most are reverant services for worship and communion with God, and they follow (mostly) the Catholic rubrics for doing so.

Second, I find it significant that the altar was at the center and the priests were facing the people and the closing song was about "Step into Freedom." The focus of all of this was the people themselves -- not God. I have a sneaking suspicion that, at least among the more liberal minded Catholics, Mass is less about worshipping God and more about worshipping themselves because the Gospel is treated as a metaphor for secular humanism and new age gnosticism.

Third, this pathetic excuse for a Mass illustrates that one of the biggest mission fields for Christianity today is parts of the Roman Catholic Church. However, I don't think the solution for Eastern Catholics is to join the Orthodox Church. I think --I hope?-- that the solution is to remain Catholic and to work within the Catholic Church to strengthen the Catholics who are still Catholic.

-- John

John,

I chose not to waste time watching the whole thing but the 1/2 I did watch you have describe pretty much as I would, especially this point.

"Second, I find it significant that the altar was at the center and the priests were facing the people and the closing song was about "Step into Freedom." The focus of all of this was the people themselves -- not God. I have a sneaking suspicion that, at least among the more liberal minded Catholics, Mass is less about worshipping God and more about worshipping themselves because the Gospel is treated as a metaphor for secular humanism and new age gnosticism."

The Gospel "reading" was completely corrupted with "liberation theology" commentary. The women running around acting sometimes like bishops or popes on LSD and the humanistic ditties that they sung were offensive. I will say this, some of this reminded me of my charismatic protestant days. As a small town kid I used to be impressed by this. We never had the resources back home to put on such a program. It was quite like Willow Creek in So. Barrington but with a bit more drama. So if the job is to make humanism exciting I guess they succeeded.

But that isn't what I would convert to if the BCs no longer existed.

CDL

When I was received into Orthodoxy from the Catholic Church nearly 3 yrs ago on Pascha, I never was made to "renounce" my Catholcism but to make a positive affirmation of Orthodox Faith. All the good things from my experience in the Catholic Church (Latin and Byzantine), I took with me into the Orthodox Church and pray for reunion constantly!