www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Woman Becomes Head of the Episcopal Church

And this is a different point of view because...? We already understand that there is deep seated corruption in the ECUSA.

CDL

I agree with you, although I wouldn't limit it to Orthodoxy but to all right-believing / traditional forms of Christianity.

And, to develop the idea: Scripture and the rest of Tradition are clear. God the Word became a human being, Jesus Christ, by the power of the Holy Spirit and the free co-operation of Mary. Thereafter and throughout His youth, Mary had responsibility for raising Him and taking care of Him. It rather shows the importance that Almighty God places on those activities and how, through all of us, He submits Himself to our care. "Whatsoever you did to the least of My brothers, that you did unto Me..."

Now, I'm not trying to argue that God wants women to be subservient or enslaved to the home. Scripture and the rest of Tradition are also clear that plenty of women (Ruth, Naomi, Mary Magdalene, St. Nina of Georgia, Mother Teresa, my mother , etc.) can live part of their lives outside of the home.

But when it comes to female ordination, I do not see it either in Scripture or in the rest of the Tradition. The Theotokos was with the apostles on Pentecost. Yet, there is no mention of female apostles, bishops or priests: neither in Scripture nor in the rest of Tradition. And I think we need to submit to God's revelation of His will, including the issue of ordination.

-- John

Dear Carson,
It should be clear that I fully and gladly support the Orthodox-Catholic teaching on the matter of "women's ordination" and that I would find it impossible to recognize the lady as a genuine bishop.

However, responding to Fr. Mike with the comment that "We already understand that there is deep seated corruption in the ECUSA" is neither courteous nor to the point.

No Church in this world has a right to use that sort of argument. Terrible things have happened in both the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. Those terrible things do not indicate that there is something wrong with the Faith of the Church (although plenty may seem to be wrong with the faith of those who do the terrible things).

Father Serge

Father,

A defense of ones erroneous actions by a claim that it is popular is no defense at all. Yet, you are correct in calling my rude remarks into question. I will try to do better.

CDL

Dan
There is deep seated corruption in all churches, Catholic and Orthodox included. So many scandals. As one very wise older lady in my Orthodox parish said at a coffee hour "we cannot gloat. We have problems in our church too. Let's fix those instead of lashing out at other churches"

My understanding is that both the church and minister in question have essentially stated that sexual relations between two people of the same gender are not sinful, and may even be blessed.

That would lead me to believing there are two possible conclusions:

A. The presence of the Holy Spirit mentioned is really a validation of human emotions and not the working of God; and because the message validated is contrary to revelation and received tradition these actions are in fact working against the Holy Spirit.

B. It is the work of the Holy Spirit, and the Orthodox and Catholic churches are now significantly in error in their understanding of human sin which means they are leading people astray (having them confess and receive absolution for things that are not sinful for instance). In other words working against the Holy Spirit.

ECUSA openly rejects the teachings of Apostolic Christianity. Should we be shocked by anything that they do in the future. I can only assume that the majority of there members are in agreement with the church's various positions.

Ilian and Lawrence,

That's what I was trying to say. You said it plainly and I thank you.

CDL

"The lady has a PhD in oceanography? Perhaps she should be deep-sixed!"

Then it is obvious that her "Episcopacy" is below SEE Level!