www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall This Latin is taking a break

My $.02 for what it is worth.

There is a very conservative Roman Catholic chat room that I like to go to. The majority of the people are wonderful. But, many times I have been told that as an Eatern Rite Catholic, I am not Catholic, our traditions are wrong, married clergy is (using our term) anathama, and so on. I truly love the Roman Church and have many wonderful friends that are Roman and enjoy the Mass very much. But, I get tired of haveing people slam us just because we don't agree with their idea of how things should be. Also, from time to time I tell them I am glad God did not call me to be a Roman Catholic, I couldn't stand the politics, I left the Baptist Church partially for that reason. Being in that room occassionally can be as though I am in a protestant chat room. But, I won't let a few chase me away from the majority of people that I really enjoy chating with.

The role of the Byzantine Forum is, through sharing of our faith, to build up the body, conversion, evangelization and education. It also, allows a way through discussion that old wounds can be opened and drained so they can be healed. Taking one out of a comfort zone, as we are who are surrounded by those in our churches that think the same as we do, allows thought and fresh air to bring understanding to a given sitution. Also, for this reason, I would say that Roman Catholics on the forum need to put themselves in the shoes of the East.

The West has wronged the East in many ways, but it is up to us as children of God to help the process of correct order take place. Rome, especially JPII, has taken great strides toward recognizing this need. We are called to forgive that we might be forgiven, for the Eastern Church is not completely innocent of error. It will take many years though before most of the West will have their eyes opened to see what we as Eastern Catholics have preserved not just for us, but for them also. After all, it is said over and over again on here by Roman Catholics coming to the Byzantine Forum about the Eastern Catholics, "I didn't know you existed."

A little love, goes a long way in a very hurting world. It is up to us to share in a loving manner, that in some way allows healing to take place.

Dear friends:

We must understand that Byzantine Catholics, particularly in the New World are going through a hard time. I share your dissapointment regarding the loss of a monastery, even when it's a small one, it does reflect that something is not working and your sadness is justified.

Maybe as it has been displayed in this forum, Orthodox posters have few problems with the Latin Church because as a result of the lack of (full) communion with the Latins, there's no one to tell Orthodox Bishops not to missionize among Latins or to rivalize with the mainstram Roman Church.

But nowadays, I doubt that Latin Bishops are a real obstacle, or that some Latin is preventing you from restoring the Orthodox tradition among your faithful, while preserving communion with the Pope. The Roman Church is very plural and they would not have any problem in accepting that (if there are charismatic parishes, conservative parishes, afroamerican mass parishes, mexican mass parishes, indult latin masses... why would they complain about a traditional orthodox parish in communion with Rome? This must be a psychological obstacle now. Maybe the current problems, the latinization, are the result of the failure of Bishops who are not as enthusiastic as their faithful about restoring the fullness of the Orthodox liturgical tradition, and have become a part of the status quo. So why not joining in an attempt to ask and force your Bishops to be brave, to be enthusiastic and to fully restore what has been lost (married clergy, for example).

The fear of loosing faithful to Orthodoxy is justified, some people after living the Orthodox tradition would probably look for Orthodoxy as a "more authentical" form of it, but it will be a minority. (A minority without significance given the loss of faithful caused by latinization and Westernization) But you'll indeed receive new converts from the RC, from protestantism, who would not like to loose Communion with Rome.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Mexican may be right.

I second that emotion!

I also agree with the "pith and substance" of the post from Rose!
Seriously though, I have run into the same things Rose refers to all over the place. On the street in person, on boards, and even here. After getting this everywhere else I come in here and find an occasional Latin poster that will not accept Byzantine (and other Eastern) Catholicism as it was meant to be, and they proceed to redefine it.

What is remarkable to me is that in such concepts as the notion of original sin and Divinization the 21 other Catholic churches seem to have much more in common with each other than any of them have to the Roman church. The Roman church literally stands alone, it's just that the church is so big!

I am actually a Latin at this point in time, and I may never transfer jurisdictions. But I know that I cannot express the theological viewpoint of Eastern Catholicism and call myself a Catholic over in the "big" house. I would be considered a liberal Catholic or something worse. That makes me feel I must become an eastern Catholic in order to legitimize my theological viewpoint!

I understand how this happens, I just don't know what can be done about it.

I labored under a misconception for years, that the Eastern Catholics believed everything exactly as I was taught in CCD word for word, and the differences in liturgy, vestments, etcetera were just a matter of custom. You know, quaint or exotic. Viewed in this way the differences can appear to be very superficial.

In thinking this way, I assumed that the Orthodox believed something different and expressed their theology differently than "all us Catholics". After making assumptions like that for years, learning the truth can have the effect of moving the ground beneath you. It's a very threatening reality, and it needs to be resolved.

I personally no longer feel very comfortable as a Latin (and have not since long before I joined this board), nobody seems to understand me there (well, mostly) and dialog is just plain difficult. When one studies Orthodox theology (or eastern Catholic theology) and realizes that we may believe and accept this teaching as our own and still be in communion with the Supreme Pontiff, it casts an entirely different light on the whole Catholic religious experience.

In Christ,
Michael, that sinner

I'm so very sorry to hear division on this site.....East and West, we are both so dear to the Lord, I'd hate to see us ending up fighting one another when Christ Himself longs for unity.

On the other hand, I want to know everyone's pain well enough to care deeply and do what I can to not cause further division.

Please know that there are Latin Rite folks who are not "judgemental" towards the East.....I hope most of you feel the same way about the West, if not, then I hope that we can at least pray together to learn to understand our differences. We are one Church.....a family of Catholics.

Pray for the East
Pray for the West
Respect them both
Don't say "one is best"


Unity In Christ

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Why is "de-Latinizing" so difficult? Maybe because Orthodox Tradition is much too hard, and post-Vatican II Catholicism is so easy to follow? It's hard to fast, hard to stand, hard to endure long services, hard to assent to fourth century theological definitions.... Latin Catholicism as it exists now, and I would even argue as it existed before the Council, is much easier. It's much easier to have a legalistic approach or a minimalistic approach ("You don't have to do this because God loves you all the same anyway. Doesn't God want you to be happy?") The Latin Church has been very open in wanting to "go with the flow" of modern life, and Orthodoxy by definition swims against the current. At this point, even many Orthodox don't want to be Orthodox anymore. So why should we expect Byzantine Catholics to want to be?

Arturo

The bottom line on this is "de-latinizing" and the amount you are going to do, depends on what century you are considering.

Perhaps a more helpful way of looking at it is, "Orthodoxification" (rather then "de-latinizing"). The Church, as well as the Vatican, calls us to be Orthodox in Faith and Worship (as in the Declaration of the Holy Synod of the Melkite Church).

Canon Law makes clear the Mandate from older Rome:

"...the practice of the Orthodox should be taken into account, knowing it, respecting it and distancing from it as little as possible so as not to increase the existing separation, but rather intensifying efforts in view of eventual adaptations, maturing and working together."

(Cong. for East. Churches: Instructions for the application of the Liturgical Prescriptions of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches. art. 21)

Herb

I do not think this is either truthful or fair to say. Just because many pervert and abuse the Latin form of Catholicism does not mean that Latin Catholicism, in its pure form, is "easy to follow." On the contrary, I believe that Latin Catholicism, especially concerning sexual immorality, etc. is about as hard a path to follow than any out there. Roman Catholicism is a mixture of sacrifice, praise, missionizing, and submission to Christ's Teachings that has no superior.

Logos Teen