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Originally posted by Brian:
Anti-Semitism does not only denote racial hatred of the Jews as with the Nazis but also religiously based hatred such as the Blood Libel. Also, forced conversion of Jews for "acceptance" in the face of persecution is hardly something for us as Christians to be proud of.
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Who's proud of it? Not that I mentioned anything about forced conversions [an oxymoron, by the way]. I am merely noting that this old-fashioned religious bigotry is not at all the same thing as a racial hatred. If you want to use the same term for the two types of persecution, go ahead, but they are very different things.
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as far as "forced conversions", you mentioned that once Jews converted they were "accepted". That kind of societal pressure, i would call a forced conversion.
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Deacon John, I do think your caution was unnecessary. Does anyone have any insights concerning the questions I asked Lawrence? Originally posted by Dan Lauffer:
Lawrence,
Could you give some links to your research. I am not surprised at your findings. After all, I've read the study that 37 of the 39 wars that are going on now involve Muslims. Why should we be surprised if we find that Muslims are behind attacks against Jews around the world? If you could give some links it would be appreciated.
Was Palestine a nation before 1948? If so, in what sense? Is there any connection between Palestine and the attacks upon Jews outside of that country? If the attacks upon Jews are attributable to Islam why is this so? If Islam is really can be seen as a religion of peace in any way, why are they at the heart of so many wars?
Dan Lauffer Dan L
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Shlomo Dan, You asked: Was Palestine a nation before 1948? If so, in what sense? Actually it was according to the League of Nations to quote: ARTICLE 22.
To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant. The best method of giving practical effect to this principle is that the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience or their geographical position can best undertake this responsibility, and who are willing to accept it, and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories on behalf of the League. The character of the mandate must differ according to the stage of the development of the people, the geographical situation of the territory, its economic conditions and other similar circumstances. Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory. Poosh BaShlomo, Yuhannon
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Most people will recognize (in this context the verb has no juridical significance) the existence of various nations who are not blessed with independent nation-states. Ukraine did not suddenly become a nation 13 years ago. The Slovaks did not suddenly become a nation recently. And so on.
However, one can argue - and many Arabs would argue - that there is but one Arab Nation, divided for political reasons into several Arab States. I'm not supporting this argument, just remarking that it does exist.
And Yuhannon is quite correct to remind us that League of Nations mandated territories carried the implication that the populations of these territories - including the Palestinians - had national consciousness, and that the states holding the mandate were required to respect that national consciousness.
One might also note that Quebec has a National Assembly instead of a provincial parliament. It is not difficult to find Quebec people who consider themselves to constitute a nation. Je me souviens!
Incognitus
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Dan
Returning to your other question regarding Palestine prior to 1948. In 1903 there were only about 25.000 mainly Eastern European Jews living in what became modern Israel, then part of the Ottoman Empire. After WW1 broke out, Turkey sided with the Central powers, and the Arab population of Palestine enthusiastically supported Great Britain in it's efforts to drive the Turks from the region. For this Sir Henry McMahon the Commissioner of Egypt promised the Arab leadership post war independence for the former Arab provinces of the Ottoman Empire. But then in 1917 British Foreign Minister Arthur Balfour committed Britain's support to a Jewish Homeland in Palestine. In the period after WWI massive Jewish immigration to the region occured, marking the beginning of serious tensions between the two communities. Needless to say, the question many Arabs commonly ask today is "why is someone who's ancestors have lived in Eastern Europe for centuries entitled to the land in Palestine where my fathers have lived for centuries ?".
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Lawrence,
Those links should keep me busy for a while. Thank you.
I really don't have answers concerning Israel. I've spent a good deal of time looking but I come up empty. Much of what is happening there is graceless and barbaric (which is redundant but maybe expresses frustration over the situation). I cannot find a justification for condemning Palestinian aspirations anymore than I can find justification for condemning Jewish aspirations. For the Jews it is a matter of survival. For the Palestinians it is a matter of pride of place. I do believe that the Christian Gospel provides the only hope but for the most part neither side is willing to listen.
It is easy for us to say Germany should have been forced to provide a homeland, but they weren't. It's easy to say the Jews should have been put on some reservation in New Mexico or some such place, but it is not so easy to offer a reason why.
After having said all of that the issue remains. Jews are hated and killed all over the world. I do not believe that there is anything about Jews or Judaism that can justify such hatred. So what is the cause? Arabs are involved in hostilities all over the world as the aggressors. It goes without saying that a majority of Arabs are not involved in these things but why is it that Arabs, claiming authority from Allah and the Qur'an are at the center of most hostilities around the world. I think we know why but our sense of tolerance prevents us from saying so.
Dan Lauffer
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Dear Incognitus,
Yes, Quebec and her people truly do constitute a "nation" - the issue of whether that nation should be a separate state is something quite apart from that matter. If anything, Quebec's relationship to the Crown has guaranteed protections of its nationality, language, culture and religion.
But that Israel belongs to the Jewish people is something that I hope we may all agree on.
The conflicts between Arabs and Jews within Israel are also rooted in the extreme Arab belief that Israel has no right to exist as a nation. And certainly the terrorist tactics deployed there against innocent civilians - and elsewhere - cannot possibly be justified under any secular charter or organization or under any religious moral code.
I think the Palestinians want peace with Israel, but a problem exists with their own leadership and with the ongoing threats and actions of terrorist groups who will settle for nothing less but the destruction of Israel.
And, yes, Ukrainians and Jews have had a checkered past - as Jews have had with all European nations.
The French Jewish journalist, Alain des Roches, was, however, a very strong advocate on Ukraine's behalf. In one article he wrote, he said that there were fewer members of the population of Ukraine supporting the Nazis than in any other European country dominated by them at the time.
Many Ukrainians helped save Jews, including Blessed Father Emilian Kovch who was martyred in Auschwitz, as we know, for refusing to stop protecting Jews and baptizing those Jews who came to him and asked for baptism.
Even the British governor of the Channel Islands was all too willing to cooperate with the Nazi invaders in helping to round up Jews there.
And the U.S. itself turned back boat-loads of Jews seeking shelter in the "land of the free."
Alex
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Dan said: ...why is it that Arabs, claiming authority from Allah and the Qur'an... Dan, I think a distinction should be drawn between Arabs and Muslims. They aren't synonymous, as there are many Arabs who are Muslim and many Muslims who aren't Arab. I know you are aware of this, but your statement above seems to imply that all Arabs are Muslims and follow the teachings of the Qur'an. I think many Melkite, Maronite, and Chaldean Christians would be shocked to learn this!  Logos Teen
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Dear Teen Logo, Good point! (My but you are wise beyond your years!)  When I worked with the legislature, we had a delegation from the Kingdom of Jordan who were filming some things to take back to show the King about our legislative traditions etc. I kept saying, "Salaam" to the members of the delegation - who kept looking at each other whenever I said that. Then one of them whispered to me, "Why are you greeting us as if we were Muslims? We are all Greek-Catholics here!" They didn't look like the Greek-Catholics I know . . . Alex
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Shlomo Alex, To quote: But that Israel belongs to the Jewish people is something that I hope we may all agree on. I, most Arab Christians and the Church disagree with this point. Here is what the Patriarchal Vicar of Jerusalem in the States has posted on their website: 1. MYTH: Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
CORRECTON: Israel never became a nation in 1312 BC. The fact is that the Israelite tribes invaded the land of Canaan in the 13th century BC, settled in the hills, and intermarried with the existing population, thus negating their tribal purity. They did not establish a nation in 1312 BC. There were various Israelite rulers who had small kingdoms for short periods of time in the land of Canaan. There was only one kingdom that was called the "kingdom of Israel," and that was the Northern Kingdom formed after the death of King Solomon. The Northern Israelites tried to establish a Jewish state in what is called Samaria, and they called it the Kingdom of Israel. It was not a "Jewish state," but was a secular state made up of many peoples and religions, and the majority of the population followed the Canaanite religions. This state lasted between 927 - 722 BC, that is, for 205 years. This state was formed as a result of a resentment for Solomon's secular state, yet this kingdom did not succeed in establishing a strictly Jewish nation. King Jeroboam worshipped Canaanite gods, King Omri married a Phoenician woman, Jezebel, and they worshiped Baal. King Ahab worshipped Baal, and the Omri dynasty built a temple of worship to the Canaanite god Melqart. The Canaanite religion dominated the Northern kingdom.
Prior to this period, the kingdoms of David and Solomon were very secular in nature. Most of the people in Solomon's kingdom were not of Israelite stock. Even Solomon's heir, King Rehoboam, was the son of an Ammonite. Racial purity, (as dictated by the Halakhah) was not common in those days. The Israelites were mixed with other peoples, like the Egyptians. Moses' wife was a Midianite. Solomon had seven hundred wives, a tactic he used to unite tribes and make alliances. Solomon's kingdom was so secular, that he built a temple for the Moabite god Chemosh, and one for the Ammonite god Milcom, as well as others.
There were other small "Israelite kingdoms" that existed for very short periods of time. Between 1037-1018 BC (19 years), King Saul ruled a small Israelite kingdom that was made up of Israelites and Canaanites. It was not a "Jewish state." Between 1018 -1011 BC (7 years), King David ruled Judah, and between 1011-978 BC (33 years), ruled over Israel and Judah. The population of these kingdoms were mixed in races and religions. Jebus was a Canaanite city which he made his capital and renamed it Jerusalem. Between 978 - 938 BC (40 years) King Solomon ruled over a secular kingdom. After his death, Solomon's kingdom was divided into two states:
The Kingdom of Israel in the North
The Kingdom of Judah in the South.
Between 927 - 586 BC (341 years) was the kingdom of Judah. Between 927 - 722 BC (205 years) was the kingdom of Israel which was conquered by the Assyrians in 722 BC, and this area was then conquered by the Babylonians in 605 BC.
If we are to consider the kingdom of Judah which lasted longer than the kingdom of Israel, plus the small Israelite kingdoms, the total time that any type of kingdom ruled by Israelites existed in the land of Canaan was about 440 years. It was the kingdom of Judah that had Jerusalem as its capital, making Jerusalem a capital for 421 years.
When the Kingdom of Judah fell, the Israelite influence was greatly reduced, except for the following periods:
During Persian rule 458 - 433 BC (25 years)
During the Maccabee rule 167 - 161 BC (6 years)
During the Romans 18 - 37 AD (19 years)
During Persian influence of 614 - 620 AD (6 years).
The Jews came to the land of Canaan in the 13th century BC, but they were not the only peoples who settled this area. The Canaanites were there first. Their kingdoms existed from 7000 BC to about 1000 BC, comprising 6000 years. The Canaanite religion survived in Palestine until the 4th century AD, when the Canaanites converted to Christianity. Other peoples settled in the area and intermarried with the Canaanites. The Egyptians conquered this area frequently, and ruled the land from about 2500 - 1700 BC, as well as 1550 - 1200 BC. The Hyksos invaded from 1710 - 1550 BC. They all intermarried with the Canaanites. The Hittites invaded from 1350 - 1290 BC. The Philistines (Aegean origin) came around 1250 - 711 BC. ther peoples that lived in this area were the Edomites, the Babylonians, the Assyrians, the Persians, the Greeks, the Armenians, amongst others who conquered for various periods throughout the history of the area.
2. MYTH: Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the Modern State of Israel.
CORRECTION: Arabs in Israel did not begin identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967. The Philistines settled in the land of Canaan around 1250 BC, establishing 5 kingdoms: Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Gath, and Ekron. It was from the Philistines that Palestine received its name. Since Roman times, this land has been known as Palestine. The Palestinians of today, Muslims and Christians, trace their descent to all the peoples who have lived on this land from the time of the Canaanites. After Jesus' time, many Jews as well as other people on this land became Christian. After the introduction of Islam, many Jews and Christians became Muslims. It is almost impossible to separate the ethnicity and racial origin of the Palestinian people, and as such they have always viewed themselves as "Palestinians."
Al-Bushra adds: The Palestinians of 1948 call them Palestinians, at the time of the Othomans and well on the time of the English madate people were called Palestinians. Money, ceritifcates and stamps show that under both dominations, the Othomans and the English, the up mentioned was called Palestine and not Israel. Israel bcame a country with in 1948 only.
3. MYTH: Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E. the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3300 years.
CORRECTION: There was no Jewish conquest in 1272 BC. As mentioned above, the Jews were one of many peoples who settled in the land of Canaan. It can be seen from the above, that they did not have dominion over the land for 1000 years, nor did they have a continuous presence on the land of Canaan.
4. MYTH: The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years.
CORRECTION: The Arabs conquered Palestine in 638 AD, and certainly lasted more than the alleged 22 years. The dates of Arab rule are the following: 638 - 1085 AD (Arab rule), 1291 - 1517 AD (under the Mamelukes of Egypt). Between 1099 - 1291 AD under the Crusaders' era when it remained under Arab rule. So actual Arab rule was for 865 years. The Palestinians are a genetic mix of all of the people who settled in the land of Canaan since 7000 BC.
5. MYTH: For over 3300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
CORRECTION: Jerusalem was not a Jewish capital for 3300 years. Throughout the history of the area, Jerusalem was a Jewish capital for only 421 years.After Solomon's death, when the kingdom split, this marked the end of a united kingdom of Israel. The Northern Kingdom was named Samaria after its capital. Jerusalem was not the capital of the Northern Kingdom which was comprised of 10 tribes, the majority of the Israelites. The kingdom of Judah in the South kept its capital as Jerusalem, but that kingdom was made up of only 2 tribes. So, the majority of the Israelites did not consider Jerusalem their capital. When the Assyrians invaded Samaria, their inhabitants were dispersed, and came to be referred to as the "Ten Lost Tribes of Israel." So the ten lost tribes of Israel had only lived in the Kingdom of Israel until the Assyrian invasion (205 years) before they ceased to exist. The Southern kingdom of Israelites, who descended from the tribe of Judah, are what remained of the Jews. Jerusalem was the capital of Judah, not Israel,for 421 years.
6. MYTH: Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.
CORRECTION: Contrary to the Tanach, the Quran is not a book of stories about historical figures and ancestors. The Quran is mainly concerned with giving guidance to the believers on how they can best achieve salvation. Mecca is mentioned only once in the Quran and Medina is only mentioned twice. The Quran does not even mention these cities as being holy, and offers very few names of places. The fact that they are mentioned so few times certainly does not diminish their status in the eyes of all Muslims.
Islam is not only comprised of the Quran, but of the Hadith of the Prophet and the Shariah. The Prophet said, "A journey (with the intention of worship) should be taken only to three mosques: The Sacred Mosque in Mecca, my Mosque in Medina, and the Masjid Al Aqsa in Jerusalem." It is a sacred duty for Muslims to visit Jerusalem, its mosque and the sacred areas that surround it. Pilgrims to Mecca and Medina often visit Jerusalem first. Virtually the entire city of Jerusalem is Waqf land (religious endowment). This land cannot be sold nor transferred. The Masjid Al Aqsa has always been a primary seat of learning in Islam, attracting many Muslim scholars who have settled in Jerusalem.
7. MYTH: King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.
CORRECTION: King David never "founded" the city of Jerusalem. He occupied Jebus, the Canaanite city, and renamed it Jerusalem. While Jews only regard David as a king, Muslims revere David as having been a Messenger of God. The fact that he established Jerusalem as his capital makes it that more important to Muslims. Mohammad came on a spiritual journey to Jerusalem.
It was also documented that he revered Jerusalem from early childhood, and he visited Syria and Palestine on trading expeditions with his uncle, and later for his future wife, Khadija. Let us also not forget that Christian Palestinians hold Jerusalem as their most holy city, and has been holy to them for 2000 years. However, their ancestors have lived continuously in this city for 9000 years, since Christian Palestinians trace their descent to all the peoples of Canaan wo lived on this land.
8. MYTH: Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.
CORRECTION: Muhammad had ordered his followers to first pray towards Jerusalem (the first Qiblah) because the Ka'bah, which the Quran identifies as the First House of worship established for humanity, was full of idols when Muhammad was first preaching. For 17 months after the emigration to Medina, Muslims continued to face Jerusalem. The revelation of 2:142-50 in the Quran changed it to Mecca. The reason for this is that the Ka'bah was the original Qiblah for all the prophets. The Black Stone in the Ka'bah has been there since the time of Adam. Abraham and his first born son Ishmael built the Ka'bah because of God's commandment to do so (2:125-27). It wasn't until almost 1000 years later that David and Solomon turned the Canaanite city of Jebus (renaming it Jerusalem) into their capital. Therefore, the Ka'bah had historical precedence as the first House of Worship to God. This did not lessen the importance of Jerusalem to Muslims. It was during the Mi'raj (the Ascension) when the Prophet took his night journey to Jerusalem, then to the Heavens from the sacred rock, that he received his command regarding the five daily prayers which he instituted upon his return to Mecca.
As for the direction of prayers, Jews did not always face Jerusalem in their prayers. The Bible says that the early Israelites faced south when they prayed (Exodus 27:9ff;40:24). This confirms that the Ka'bah, which is south of Jerusalem was the Qiblah for the early Israelite communities as well.
9. MYTH: Arab and Jewish refugees. In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.
CORRECTION: Arab refugees were not encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. According to Israeli historian, Tom Segev, in his book "One Palestine, Complete", the Arab leaders tried to stop the Palestinians from fleeing their homes, but were not able to do so. The Palestinians did not have the confidence that the badly organized Arab armies could protect the civilians from the onslaught of Zionist forces. Zionists claim that "68% left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier." Zionist forces were clearly visible throughout Palestine. It was the fear of terrorist acts committed by the Zionist terror gangs as well as the Zionist forces (the Haganah, Palmach, Etzel, and Lechi forces) who had won several victories, conquering Tiberias, Safed, and Haifa, that led the civilians to flee. Several massacres of entire villages like Deir Yassin, and the continual voice of the Zionist underground radio announcing massacres, rapes, plunder and conquests, that instilled fear in the people. According to Israeli historians, Tom Segev and Benny Morris, around 750,000 refugees fled, and over half of them were forcibly expelled by the Zionist forces. The civilians who left on their own, as is their right during times of conflict, did it to save their own lives. They thought they were leaving for a short period of time for safety, and all believed they would be permitted to go home once the conflict ended.
10. MYTH: The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
CORRECTION: The Jewish refugees were not forced to flee from Arab lands and were not exposed to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms. Only a
small number of Arab Jews supported Zionism. Zionists of European origin, like David Ben-Gurion, Golda Meir, and Abba Eban often made derogatory statements regarding Arab Jews who they considered to be inferior to themselves. The Jewish communities had flourished in Arab lands for thousands of years, and they contributed greatly to Arab culture as did all
other peoples who settled in the Arab World. It was the Zionist movement that used underhanded means to frighten and force Arab Jews to settle in Israel. Many regretted that move, and have always complained of being second-class citizens in their own state.
Off the coast of Tunisia, on a small island of Djerba, a Jewish colony lived that traced its presence there to at least 1000 BC. According to
Rabbi Moshe Schonfeld, "Some Djerban rabbis who were not to be fooled nor intimidated by the Zionists were harassed, threatened and even beaten." (Schonfeld, "Genocide in the Holy Land, 508) Rabbi Schonfeld also wrote about the same
tactics used to get the Jews of Iraq to flee to Israel. Zionists tried to convince these Arab Jews that it was the Arabs who were exploding bombs in their neighborhoods, but it was
the Zionists who dreamed of populating Israel with Jews form all over the world. Wilbur Crane Eveland, a former CIA operative, wrote about the Zionist crimes against Arab Jews in Iraq (Feuerlicht, "The Fate of the Jews," 231).
Jewish author, Alfred Lilienthal, wrote about the oppressive treatment by Ashkenazi (European) Jews in Israel of the Sephardic Jews (Semitic Arab
origin) in his book "The Zionist Connection." Jews in the Arab World were always treated with respect and civility throughout history. Any
mistreatment they received was in the hands of the Zionists in Israel.
11. MYTH: The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.
CORRECTION: The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated at over 750,000, and this estimate is from Israeli historians, Benny Morris and Tom Segev. The Jews who left Arab countries to Israel did so as immigrants and did not leave as refugees.
12. MYTH: Arab refugees were intentionally not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory.
Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into
their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country larger than the state of New Jersey.
CORRECTION: Zionists always claim that Palestinian refugees were intentionally not absorbed or integrated into Arab lands to which they fled. They boast that little Israel has absorbed Jewish refugees with no difficulty. Today, there are around 3.7 million Palestinian refugees. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 13, states that everyone
"has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country." The Geneva Conventions stipulate the right of refugees to return to their homes. U.N. General Assembly Resolution 194 (adopted in 1948), which specifically applies to Palestinian refugees, states in Paragraph 11 that "the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with
their neighbors should be permited to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible." Israel was admitted to the U.N.
(Resolution 273) as a member state only on condition that it abide by Resolution 194.
Israel has consistently refused to abide by Resolution 194. It is the will of the Palestinian people that they be repatriated to their homeland. Criticizing neighboring countries because they could not absorb more refugees than they have already, is an Israeli attempt to beat around the bush so they won't
have to face the real issue of the Palestinian right of return.
As for Jews who are absorbed in Israel, that is part of the Zionist dream. Zionists created Israel for the purpose of attracting the Jewish Diaspora. They have been able to accomplish this aim because of the billions of dollars Israel receives from the U.S. each year as well as from world Jewry, a luxury that Arab countries do not have.
13. MYTH: The Arab-Israeli Conflict; The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.
CORRECTION: Zionist propaganda loves to claim that "little" Israel dwells in a sea of powerful Arab nations. The claim is that Arab nations
initiated all five wars. Menahem Begin, himself, admitted in an article in "The New York Times" that "In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really
about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him." (8/21/82) Such admissions came also from General Yitzhak Rabin, general Mattitiahu Peled, General Ezer Weizman, among many others. Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon was also initiated by Israel, as well as the Suez War of 1956. Israeli historians, among them Benny Morris, have
documented that Israel was the aggressor in both of these wars.
14. MYTH: The P.L.O.'s Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank
land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them with weapons.
CORRECTION: The PLO does not call for the destruction of the State of Israel. Since 1979, the PLO (Palestine National Council) offered its
formula for peace to the Israelis, namely that Palestinians would recognize the Jewish state inside its pre-1967 borders, in exchange for Israel's recognition of the Palestinian right to self-determination. It was the aim of Oslo that the Palestinians would be given their state on the West Bank and in the Gaza Strip following Israel's complete withdrawal. Israel's
continual refusal to withdraw from occupied Palestinian land threatens to undermine decades of overtures of peace the PLO has made towards the Israelis.
Document A.2 of the Oslo Accords is a statement made by PLO Chairman Yasir Arafat to Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin. In this statement, Arafat writes: "The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security. The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338."
Document A.1 is the Declaration of Principles. Article I states that:
"The aim of the Israeli-Palestinian negotiations within the current Middle East peace process is, among other things, to establish a Palestinian
Interim Self-Government Authority, the elected Council, (the "Council") for the Palestinian people in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, for a
transitional period not exceeding five years, leading to a permanent settlement based on Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338."
After 7 1/2 years, it is clear that Israel has no intent of honoring its part of the Oslo Agreements. Since 1967, Israel has confiscated 175,000 acres of Palestinian land in the occupied territories, defying the rules of international law which pertain to occupied people. More recently, the uprooting of more than 35,000 olive trees, 22,000 grapevines, the bulldozing of homes, the human rights violations, the speeding up of the construction of settlements and highways only confirmed Barak's real intent, which was to change the demographics of the occupied territories, making it difficult to negotiate a just and reasonable withdrawal from
occupied land. The argument that "Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land" becomes increasingly ridiculous.
15. MYTH: Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
CORRECTION: No Jewish holy sites have ever been desecrated under Jordanian or any Arab rule. No Jews were ever denied access to places of worship. Jewish holy sites are revered by both Christian and Muslim Palestinians who follow the same Abrahamic faith preached by ancient prophets.
The statement that "all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths" is one of the most grossly
erroneous statements made by Zionist propagandists. On the contrary, it is the Jewish state that has had a long history of desecrating Christian holy sites and both Christian and Muslim cemetaries. The Hilton Hotel in Tel
Aviv stands on a Muslim cemetary bulldozed indiscriminately. In 1947 there were 350,000 Christians in Palestine. The Melchite church lost many churches in 1948 at the hands of the Israelis. They lost churches in Damound, Somata, Kafr-Bur'om and Ikret, a village destroyed by the Israeli army on Christmas day in 1952. During the 1967 war, many churches in Jerusalem and Bethlehem were desecrated and looted by soldiers and civilians alike. The names of all churches as well as the details of each incident since 1948 is well-documented by the clergy of each denomination, and the incidents number in the hundreds. The lack of respect for biblical
history is also exhibited by the destruction of 3 biblical villages, Beit-Nuba, Emmaus, and Yalu.
These villages were known from the time of Jesus. Since 1948, Israel has demolished 450 Palestinian villages, many of which were part of biblical history. Many Christian shrines have been destroyed as well. Since 1948, there has been a continual campaign against Christian missionaries, persecution of Christians in Israel, attacks against Jewish-Christian
meetings, censorship of films that mention the name of Jesus Christ, attacks on Christian schools, the confiscation of Christian artifacts from private homes, the beating of Christian women, and the obliteration of Christian shrines. The confiscation by Jewish settlers of St. Johns' Monastery, located near the church of the Holy Sepulcher, is an example of the regular attacks committed by Israelis against Christian holy sites.
As for the Israeli attacks of Muslim holy sites, the most threatened is the Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. The excavations under and around Al Aqsa Mosque threaten to undermine its foundation. In 1969, an attempt was made
by Israelis to burn the Al Aqsa Mosque, prompting world concern to adopt the 1969 UN Resolution 271 which condemned the attempts at destroying the
Mosque and condemned the profanities committed against the Mosque. In the 1967 war, the Israelis bombarded Jerusalem and damaged parts of Al Aqsa. Between March 1982 and January 1986, 21 attempts were made by Israelis to destroy
parts of the Al Aqsa compound. The Ibrahimi Mosque in Hebron also sustained Israeli attacks. From May 1982 to October 1984, there were 26 reported attacks and violations against the mosque by Israeli soldiers and settlers. Other
mosques that endured attacks from July 1983 to December 1986 were: The Khaled Ibn al Walid Mosque in Hebron, the Izariyah Mosque in Jerusalem, the Haraa Mosque in Gaza, the Kammaaneh Mosque in Safad, and the Hizma Mosque
in Jerusalem. Since the 1969 fire, the Al Aqsa Mosque was frequently attacked from August 1969 to 1986, with the obvious attempt to endanger its very structure. It is clear that the Zionist dream of destroying the Al Aqsa Mosque in order to rebuild the Jewish Temple is at the core of the campaign.
16. ARGUMENT:
The U.N. record on Israel and the Arabs. Of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.
17. ARGUMENT.Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.
REACTION: The U.N. record speaks for itself! The World Body would not be condemning Israeli atrocities if these atrocities had not been committed. It is up to Israel to abide by international law and all standards of human
decency and human rights. It is Israel's self-image as a victim that causes it to condemn the United Nations and its resolutions.
18. ARGUMENT: The U.N. was silent while 58 Jerusalem synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.
19. ARGUMENT: The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetary on the Mount of Olives.
20. ARGUMENT: The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an aparthied-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.
REACTION: There is absolutely no proof of the "58 synagogues....destroyed," or the desecration of the Jewish cemetery by the
Jordanians, or any attempts to prevent Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall. Under Islamic rule, Jerusalem was open to Christians, Muslims and Jews. Such utter disregard for the holy sites of Christians and Muslims is a characteristic of the Israeli state alone.
[/quote]]http://www.al-bushra.org/palestine/myth1.html[/B][/QUOTE] [al-bushra.org]
As you can see the Catholic Church in the Holy Land does not agree with your points.
To quote:
[quote]The conflicts between Arabs and Jews within Israel are also rooted in the extreme Arab belief that Israel has no right to exist as a nation. The question becomes by what right does Israel have to exist on Palestinian land? As Christians we Arabs from the region are against violence, that does not mean that we recongize the theft of land, nor the colonizers of it. Here from the pamlet [b]Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict, published by Jews for Justice in the Middle East has to say to this point. Given Arab opposition to them, did the Zionists support steps towards majority rule in Palestine?
"Clearly, the last thing the Zionists really wanted was that all the inhabitants of Palestine should have an equal say in running the country... [Chaim] Weizmann had impressed on Churchill that representative government would have spelled the end of the [Jewish] National Home in Palestine... [Churchill declared,] 'The present form of government will continue for many years. Step by step we shall develop representative institutions leading to full self-government, but our children's children will have passed away before that is accomplished.'" David Hirst, "The Gun and the Olive Branch."
Denial of the Arabs' right to self-determination
"Even if nobody lost their land, the [Zionist] program was unjust in principle because it denied majority political rights... Zionism, in principle, could not allow the natives to exercise their political rights because it would mean the end of the Zionist enterprise." Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi, "Original Sins."
Arab resistance to Pre-Israeli Zionism
"In 1936-9, the Palestinian Arabs attempted a nationalist revolt... David Ben-Gurion, eminently a realist, recognized its nature. In internal discussion, he noted that 'in our political argument abroad, we minimize Arab opposition to us,' but he urged, 'let us not ignore the truth among ourselves.' The truth was that 'politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country, while we are still outside'... The revolt was crushed by the British, with considerable brutality." Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle."
Gandhi on the Palestine conflict - 1938
"Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French...What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct...If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs... As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regard as an unacceptable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds." Mahatma Gandhi, quoted in "A Land of Two Peoples" ed. Mendes-Flohr.
Didn't the Zionists legally buy much of the land before Israel was established?
"In 1948, at the moment that Israel declared itself a state, it legally owned a little more than 6 percent of the land of Palestine...After 1940, when the mandatory authority restricted Jewish land ownership to specific zones inside Palestine, there continued to be illegal buying (and selling) within the 65 percent of the total area restricted to Arabs.
Thus when the partition plan was announced in 1947 it included land held illegally by Jews, which was incorporated as a fait accompli inside the borders of the Jewish state. And after Israel announced its statehood, an impressive series of laws legally assimilated huge tracts of Arab land (whose proprietors had become refugees, and were pronounced 'absentee landlords' in order to expropriate their lands and prevent their return under any circumstances)." Edward Said, "The Question of Palestine."
Was the partition plan fair to both Arabs and Jews?
"Arab rejection was...based on the fact that, while the population of the Jewish state was to be [only half] Jewish with the Jews owning less than 10% of the Jewish state land area, the Jews were to be established as the ruling body - a settlement which no self-respecting people would accept without protest, to say the least...The action of the United Nations conflicted with the basic principles for which the world organization was established, namely, to uphold the right of all peoples to self-determination. By denying the Palestine Arabs, who formed the two-thirds majority of the country, the right to decide for themselves, the United Nations had violated its own charter." Sami Hadawi, "Bitter Harvest."
Were the Zionists prepared to settle for the territory granted in the 1947 partition?
"While the Yishuv's leadership formally accepted the 1947 Partition Resolution, large sections of Israel's society - including...Ben-Gurion - were opposed to or extremely unhappy with partition and from early on viewed the war as an ideal opportunity to expand the new state's borders beyond the UN earmarked partition boundaries and at the expense of the Palestinians." Israeli historian, Benny Morris, in "Tikkun", March/April 1998.
Public vs private pronouncements on this question.
"In internal discussion in 1938 [David Ben-Gurion] stated that 'after we become a strong force, as a result of the creation of a state, we shall abolish partition and expand into the whole of Palestine'...In 1948, Menachem Begin declared that: 'The partition of the Homeland is illegal. It will never be recognized. The signature of institutions and individuals of the partition agreement is invalid. It will not bind the Jewish people. Jerusalem was and will forever be our capital. Eretz Israel (the land of Israel) will be restored to the people of Israel, All of it. And forever." Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle."
The war begins
"In December 1947, the British announced that they would withdraw from Palestine by May 15, 1948. Palestinians in Jerusalem and Jaffa called a general strike against the partition. Fighting broke out in Jerusalem's streets almost immediately...Violent incidents mushroomed into all-out war...During that fateful April of 1948, eight out of thirteen major Zionist military attacks on Palestinians occurred in the territory granted to the Arab state." "Our Roots Are Still Alive" by the People Press Palestine Book Project.
Zionists' disrespect of partition boundaries
"Before the end of the mandate and, therefore before any possible intervention by Arab states, the Jews, taking advantage of their superior military preparation and organization, had occupied...most of the Arab cities in Palestine before May 15, 1948. Tiberias was occupied on April 19, 1948, Haifa on April 22, Jaffa on April 28, the Arab quarters in the New City of Jerusalem on April 30, Beisan on May 8, Safad on May 10 and Acre on May 14, 1948...In contrast, the Palestine Arabs did not seize any of the territories reserved for the Jewish state under the partition resolution." British author, Henry Cattan, "Palestine, The Arabs and Israel."
Culpability for escalation of the fighting
"Menahem Begin, the Leader of the Irgun, tells how 'in Jerusalem, as elsewhere, we were the first to pass from the defensive to the offensive...Arabs began to flee in terror...Hagana was carrying out successful attacks on other fronts, while all the Jewish forces proceeded to advance through Haifa like a knife through butter'...The Israelis now allege that the Palestine war began with the entry of the Arab armies into Palestine after 15 May 1948. But that was the second phase of the war; they overlook the massacres, expulsions and dispossessions which took place prior to that date and which necessitated Arab states' intervention." Sami Hadawi, "Bitter Harvest."
The Deir Yassin Massacre of Palestinians by Jewish soldiers
"For the entire day of April 9, 1948, Irgun and LEHI soldiers carried out the slaughter in a cold and premeditated fashion...The attackers 'lined men, women and children up against the walls and shot them,'...The ruthlessness of the attack on Deir Yassin shocked Jewish and world opinion alike, drove fear and panic into the Arab population, and led to the flight of unarmed civilians from their homes all over the country." Israeli author, Simha Flapan, "The Birth of Israel."
Was Deir Yassin the only act of its kind?
"By 1948, the Jew was not only able to 'defend himself' but to commit massive atrocities as well. Indeed, according to the former director of the Israeli army archives, 'in almost every village occupied by us during the War of Independence, acts were committed which are defined as war crimes, such as murders, massacres, and rapes'...Uri Milstein, the authoritative Israeli military historian of the 1948 war, goes one step further, maintaining that 'every skirmish ended in a massacre of Arabs.'" Norman Finkelstein, "Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict."
I, Arab Christians, and the Church agree with your point that: "... terrorist tactics deployed there against innocent civilians - and elsewhere -cannot possibly be justified under any secular charter or organization or under any religious moral code." But the Church still recongizes the right of the Palestinians to fight for their lands. Yes I agree with you point that you: "think the Palestinians want peace with Israel...". They, the Jews, are there now, and it does not serve anyones interest to have continual war. But, the Palestinians are not willing to be subjectgated. At the present time, any Jew from around the world can land in Israel and become a citizen of that state in less than a minute. While Palestinians in camps who families had lived on that very same land can not. Further, the Palestinians within Israel can not have organized Political parties that do not recognize that Israel is a Jewish State. Therefor those parties and people that believe in a bi-national state, et al can not organize. To quote: A party cannot register if it rejects the Jewish and democratic nature of the State of Israel... You ask why Jews are hated around the world, and the simple answer is that most of the Muslims of the world see the U.S. supporting the despots over them, and Israel. They therefore, wrongly associate those policies with Jews in general. They see Israel as another repressive regime that is acting as a proxy for the West. A lot would change if the U.S. stopped helping the dictators stay in power. Further, much more would happen if the U.S. was willing to truly be an honest broker and stopped giving money to Israel when it violates international law, and human morals. Poosh BaShlomo, Yuhannon
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Dear Yuhannon,
I believe there was a Palestinian cleric who approved of suicide bombings too - is he correct because he is a cleric and a representative of the Church?
And are the Arabs the historic people of Egypt and some other nations in the Middle East?
The Copts and others would strongly disagree - but quietly since they are already suffering persecution not only for their religion, but also for their nationality - something that hardly gets any play in the press.
I think that to accept the "Church's" argument as you've outlined, we Christians would have to deny the Old Testament!
But I'll leave it at that.
Alex
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Dear Friends:
Speaking of the approximately 1.2 billion Muslims of the world, more than 70% are non-Arabs, even counting Egypt. The 10 countries with the largest concentration of Muslims are the following:
Indonesia 170,310,000
Pakistan 136,000,000
Bangladesh 106,050,000
India 103,000,000
Turkey 62,410,000
Iran 60,790,000
Egypt 53,730,000
Nigeria 47,720,000
China 37,108,000
Malaysia has about 12 million Muslims (52% of total population).
With its approximately 5 million Muslims (alongside a Catholic population of around 65 million), the Philippines probably has more Muslim adherents than most of the tiny Arab states in the Middle East.
Just a food for thought.
AmdG
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