www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Cantors

In preparing future chanters, there is certainly a need for meetings in person. But much can also be done with the use of recordings, videos and other modern aids to long-distance education and discussion. These possibilities should not be neglected, even though they also cost money. Incognitus

Dear Brethren,

I hope that my previous post didn't sound overly mercenary, but "the workman is worthy of his wages."

Most of the chanters that I know are also strong contributors to their parishes, local monasteries, dioceses, and other charitable undertakings. The very modest stipends or salaries paid to them are going to end up back in Christ's Church anyway. It is not the same as hiring an outside contractor to repair the plumbing. In this case, the money goes "down the drain" (if I may ).

Part of why the cantor/psalti should be paid has to do with accountability. The stipend makes him accountable to be present when needed (within reason). And if we go with the model of a "pool" of chanters/psaltis, we find that one of them is likely to be available, even, for example, on a Tuesday morning for a funeral service. The chanter who actually serves would receive something "extra" from the family for this service, above his stipend.

However, it has been my observation that the cantors/psaltis tend to make themselves available even without the stipend and even without the "extra," thus perpetuating the current situation.

In Christ,
Andrew

I am personally acquainted - to my sorrow - with an otherwise excellent chanter, who is completely undependable. He will readily agree to come and chant for any occasion one might wish to name, and will then fail to appear, whether there is money involved or not (this young man is far from being financially well off, and could use the money). Haven't seen him for a year or so (how suprising!) and I don't know of a church in town, of any denomination, willing to give him yet another opportunity.
But if I found a chanter who could be depended upon to appear when scheduled without the promise of financial reward, that would be exactly the man who should be given every encouragement, including monetary remuneration. Incognitus

Dear Incognitus,

It sounds like a problem of a deeper sort than mere absenteeism.

A chanter/reader/psalti, if tonsured, is technically assigned to a parish and is responsible to the proistamenos (leading presbyter) of that parish.

While I usually "tell" my priest at my assigned parish if I'll be there or at some other parish, I certainly feel obligated to keep him in the know. Of course, if he or the bishop wanted to restrict my wanderings, they certainly have the authority to do so.

A cantor most definitely belongs to a diocese and a parish. Minor clergy.

In Christ,
Andrew

At least in the Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic Church in the US, cantors are currently [I/]not[/I] clergy, minor or major. I expect that that's probably a mercy, as so many of us are women. We serve the parishes where we attend - it's not a matter of being assigned anywhere.

As for keeping committments, that's a matter of courtesy and dependability, not a matter of being ordained or paid.

Cheers,

Sharon

Dear Mother Sharon,

In your jurisdiction, as I understand it, the cantors/readers are not formally tonsured by their bishop. If that is the case, then they should, as you state, serve wherever they choose to attend. They are free (in Christ, of course).

This is similar to a man "blessed" to serve as a subdeacon during a particular service. When the service is over, he is not (technically) bound by the canons particular to the clergy.

The canons regarding minor clergy refer only to the tonsured Readers and ordained Subdeacons.

In the Christ born in a cave by the Most Holy Theotokos,
Andrew

Dear Andrew,
The instance that I described is almost certainly indicative of a problem with the chanter in question that goes beyond mere absenteeism - I've met quite a variety of clergy and laity who have been burned by this particular musician, and no one known to me has succeeded in giving him any assistance. I have no specific idea of what the underlying problem(s) may be, but I think that the chanter in question needs help far beyond any that I have to offer. Any further description on my part would be speculative and uncharitable. I've said as much as I have only because I'm writing anonymously, which makes it quite unlikely that anybody could identify the chanter from reading these two postings. It's always sad and frustrating to find someone with genuine talents and abilities who leaves nothing but bad experiences in his wake. Incognitus

Dear Sharon,

At first I scratched my head at women cantors, but then I remembered that our Greek Orthodox churches have choirs as well as cantors, and that the choirs are filled with women!

You must have a beautiful voice!

In Christ our Lord,
Alice

Alice,

Would that the soul matched!


Andrew,

I get a chuckle out of the notion that we are free to attend any church. If we are talking about choice in Byzantine churches, well, within the Parma Eparchy, outside of the greater Cleveland area, that freedom is pretty danged meaningless without a Star Trek Transporter, or mebbe a Stargate.


(Open the iris please)


Cheers,

Sharon
(who may not make it to church to sing this evening, if it turns out I'm coming down with whatever my kid has..)

I think that we've touched upon (see Alice's post) the issue of antiphonal cantors/chanters/choirs with the men on one side and the women on the other. I like the idea and have seen it operate beautifully in a Cathedral setting, although I have nothing against combined/mixed (Male & Female) Byzantine or Slavic (four-part) style choirs. I simply find the antiphonal set-up to be superior.

The Presbyter and singers need to divide up the service, clearly indicating which pieces will be chanted by which choir. In this way, each piece (varying week to week) is clearly sung male or female. What this does is encourage the faithful to join in.

It is very hard for women to follow a male psalti/chanter because of the great difference in tonality. But they can easily follow a female chanter. The reverse is also true.

The only real difference between two said choirs is that some of the males would have been tonsured, are probably studying or rather young, and may later be ordained. The older professional male "psaltis" will be few in number, hopefully have a stipend (as I would hope the director of the female choir would also have), and accompany priests and deacons on their travels and special services.

Any comments?

In Christ,
Andrew

Just a follow-up.

I was at a small Greek Orthodox parish for the Theophany service. They had approx. 100 attendees on that Tuesday morning, mostly all immigrants.

They have a professional (and I assume "paid")cantor/psalti who has a regular job somewhere else. He is a good example of what a good cantor should be. He doesn't try to dominate the service. He has been teaching the congregants to sing along for all of the regularly-repeated parts of the Matins and Divine Liturgy. Most of them also seemed to know the Troparion of the Theophany by heart. At those times, frequently, he would step away from the microphone so that their voices could be heard.

It was most beautiful. Although I don't know the Liturgy in Greek all that well, I found myself trying to join them anyway.

Congregational singing, in combination with choirs and cantors, has its part in the Eastern tradition, especially in these more intimate settings. I highly recommend it.

In Christ,
Andrew

What often goes unnoticed are the stipends listed in the eparchial statutes for cantors. Marriages and funerals have their own statutory stipend. How many people know about this? Check with your eparchy to see what they are. Each pastor should have a copy of the statutes for his eparchy tucked away somewhere.

These statutory stipends are typically ignored and the parishioners are usually never told about them. Cantors sometimes have to take vacation days from work to assist at a funeral without ever a thank you or stipend. Its a part of life. But many cantors do it because it needs to be done and not because one expects a thank you or a stipend. Some cantors have chanted at weddings and funerals for years without ever getting monetary compensation in kind. This situation is usually taken advantage of, hence the desire to keep a 'volunteer' cantorship. Cantors are a dime a dozen. Secretaries, lawncare-givers, and janitors are not. Its all about priorities. As long as cantors don't know about the statutes, they don't have to be applied, right?

My wife's former Latin parish won't let a family leave the church until the organist gets paid, funeral or wedding. Many organists are organized and people know they "have to pay the organist and cantor." //You don't feel the need to pay, you don't get the music for pray.// My wifes' Baptist friends still don't understand how our church gets by without compensating its music ministers. Their music ministers are paid and are very busy providing their houses of worship with a lot of singing material.

But don't interpret my observations and comments as an argument for compulsory salaries for cantors. We just learned to get by doing things differently today than generations ago. The ordained cantorship that gets its working papers from the bishop is long gone as well as the obedience that comes with ordination. Cantorship is now provided 'from below' - volunteers who come forward from the ... pew. Our bishops and pastors have allowed this institution to die - along with our plainchant and multitude of services.

This topic is oftentimes difficult to bring up without being branded a money-seeking opportunist. Let me restate this again. This topic is oftentimes difficult to bring up without being branded a money-seeking opportunist. Anytime money is mixed with ministry it is suspect unless, of course, it deals with paying pastors and the obligatory cathedricum.

Believe me, if money WAS really the issue, many cantors would have found greener grass elsewhere than small Greek Catholic parishes with beautifully manicured landscaping. Many cantors have a job elsewhere and really don't need a stipend or the extra stress. Any money paid can only help pay for liturgical texts, copy music, etc. to develop the craft, which in turn will only help improve (hopefully) the singing in the parishes. I know many cantors who never heard about our liturgical texts - even in today's environment of ultra-hyper communication means. Many questions and problems are usually level-one difficulty that can be answered if a cantor had proper books in front of him/her.

Do these issues EVER come up at pastoral advisory meetings?

With money also comes cooperation. If somoeone is paid a stipend (or salary), a reciprocal relationship now exists between cantor and pastor. Reciprocaty implies a loss of control/power, mutual cooperation, and duties to be performed. Keeping a particular ministry as a 'volunteer' basis will only encourage aloofness from a much needed and much neglected service to the community.

In the past, the cantor was paid and the lawn was mowed by volunteer parishioners. Today, the lawncare-givers are paid and the cantors are volunteers. The flow of money usually reflects our priorities. The outside of our temples is more important than what goes on inside, especially the quality of singing. We are a product of our culture that awards those with nice bods and no brains, and ignores or stresses out those who stay late or who gets those things done that need to be done.

If you think what I wrote is nonsense, then I will gladly provide you with words from a Melkite bishop who wrote on the same topic about our incultured priorities regarding lawncare, secretaries, and cantors.

Joe

The chanter whom Andrew describes in the Greek parish has aroused covetousness and greed in my sinful heart (and on Christmas, too). By any chance does this chanter have the power of bilocation? Incognitus

I'm still mulling on the idea that women find it difficult to follow a male cantor, and men find it difficult to follow a woman.

In my experience, it ain't so - unless the pitch is wildly inappropriate, or the cantor doesn't want to be followed - a variable inependent of gender.

Puzzled....

Sharon

P.S. Joe - I didn't know there were eparchial guidelines on stipends. Haven't heard much about the eparchial guidelines on anything except sexual abuse prevention in YEARS.

Dear Cantor Joe,

You are "right on the money."

My sympathies are with you.

In Christ,
Cantor Andrew