www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Cantors

I am very curious about something. Do Eastern Christian parishes have paid cantors?, If so, what is the "going rate" for a cantor? It seems like a lost vocation. Where would you go to find one?

Almost all of the cantors I know in Byzantine Catholic parishes volunteer their services as cantor as part of their tithe to the Church. I'm sure others will comment on the practice in their Eastern Christian jurisdiction. I know lots of cantors but am aware of only a few who receive any stipend for their services. Occasionally some will receive a stipend for cantoring a special service, such as a wedding or funeral. It would be wonderful if our parishes had the financial resources to retain paid cantors but that is currently a very unrealistic idea, since most parishes are very small.

Where would you go to find a cantor? Good question! There are always people interested in cantoring and you can occasionally find a cantor in training standing next to an experienced cantor in order to learn the chants. I am always training a few via sharing liturgical music and answering questions via the telephone and e-mail. Sadly, there are not enough for a parish in need of a cantor to order one with FedEx delivery.

Christ is Born! Glorify Him!

Dear Teacher, the only time I generally have ever received any pay was from funerals, weddings, and an occasional baptism.

Every once in a while on major feasts such as Pascha someone will stick a bill in my pocket after the baskets are blessed, and for Theophany house blessings when I accompany the priest I will occasionally get a tip as well (and always a full stomach) .

Some of the Eparchial directories, etc. will occasionally have a cantor's list, but many very capable and experienced ones are "unofficial" and not included on those lists. You would do best to contact parishes in the area of interest to be pointed in the right direction.

My humble apologies in advance for my linguistic snootiness - but the putative verb "to cantor" does not exist in English, except perhaps as a mis-spelling for the verb "to canter", which means something rather different. The correct verb is, simply, "to chant".
That said, a good cantor (or chanter, to use my preferred term) deserves to be paid (if he prefers to donate his services, that is his decision) and to have an expense allowance to enable him to attend workshops on liturgical chant and purchase books and music.
Check with the local synagogue on what they pay the cantor(s). After recovering from that shock, read Thomas Day's wonderful book *Why Catholics Can't Sing*. Then start paying the cantor(s) - and discover the delightful truth that good music in a church is like bread cast on the waters - it really does come back a hundredfold.
[On the other hand, an essential element in the definition of a good chanter is that he can be depended upon to show up as needed.]
Incognitus

And that's what's great about American English. It's a living, growing, constantly-change organism.

"To cantor" means to lead the congregation in chant. It provides a very specific description and is perfectly fine.

Unlike some European languages, it's popular usage that determines our language, not academies full of linguistic snoots.

--Tim

Any good linguist worth his salt would not be a prescriptionist. Therefore it is wrong to call linguistics "snoots." The people who write the grammars are the prescriptionists.

For a good dictionary, try the American HeritageDictionary, 4th Edition, or the OED (Oxford English Dictionary). Both are quite unsnooty and show a variety of pronunciations and definitions.

Christ is Born! Glorify Him!

Yours in Christ,
Elizabeth Maria, the linguist :p

BTW: Did you know it used to be good King's English to say, "He ain't got nothing."?

Relax. I was merely referring to Mr. Incognitus' self-proclaimed "linguistic snootiness."

--Tim

Teacher,

I know of only a few regularly paid cantors. As the administrator has pointed out, most of us are on a purely voluntary basis. Stipends for baptisms, weddings, funerals are not set at any given amount and are usually only small amounts anyway.
In the days of full time paid cantors, the pay was not very high compared to other professions, again because most parishes had a hard time keeping up with other expenses.
As a vocation, the order of Cantor is definitely lost in the Ruthenian Church. I don't know what the situation really is in the other Eastern Churches (Catholic or Orthodox).
As to finding one, most parishes will have someone who fills the role of 'cantor', whether they be proficient or not will be in the eye of the beholder.

Steve Petach,
volunteer cantor

Pot Kettle Black

Anybody who cares to snicker at linguistic snootiness at my expense is welcome to do so! And there is no need to call me "Mr.". In return, however, I shall ask if it is possible that American English is so totally chaotic that one may appeal neither to a dictionary nor to a grammar (we won't even discuss syntax for the moment)? Incognitus

You can appeal all you want, but the final arbiter is the streets. We live in a linguistic democracy.

But, for the record, we can doctor, and lawyer and soldier on; we can police, and cook and clown around. So there's no good reason why we can't cantor. Nouns become verbs all the time.

--Tim

....Sigh.....

another thread hijacked by the grammer police.

Thank God there are grammar police. How does it hurt a thread to get sidetracked with a discussion of bad grammar? We all make occasional mistakes and it helps to have them pointed out. We can always return to discussing the topic at hand.

anastasios

Anastsios,

It just seems that there is no forgiveness when so many threads have some snipe about spelling or grammar. The topic rarely gets steered back to it's original focus because it seems to be so much more fun to police (the verb) everyone's grammer than to keep to the subject at hand.

Is it any wonder why some first-time posters don't want to reply to their original inquiry?

Steve

Well, my original post included an apology to those who find a concern for linguistic accuracy offensive, so I see no reason to repeat that apology. A good use of language is a worth-while skill for a chanter/cantor to cultivate - one who speaks the relevant language well stands a better chance of being able to read and chant that language well. Most of us have probably experienced the opposite phenomenon.
It is true that American English is determined by usage. But when that usage is confined to a small group, and would not be recognized by the overwhelming majority of those who speak American English then such a usage can most kindly be described, at best, as a colloquialism. If we wish our Faith to be accessible to the general (American English-speaking) public, we would be well advised not to throw up a linguistic barrier but rather to speak and write standard American English ourselves. The willful rejection of perfectly good English words in favor of colloquialisms is (suprise!) also a form of snootiness.
But the criticism that we should stick to the basic thrust of a given thread is well taken. I notice that my comment on paying the chanter/cantor has been completely overlooked. I suspect that in this instance silence does not give consent! To use colloquial English myself: if you want good singing in your Church, PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS! If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Incognitus

To be a Ruthenian cantor is to have an avocation, not a paid vocation. It seems to me that to be a cantor is to exercise a God-given talent for the sake of God's Glory, and for the benefit of the congregation. Money usually has nothing to do with it. You want to sing for money? Then go secular. The Church is for worship, and depending on what traditional church body you are in, there may or may not be funds. The current need within the Ruthenians is for cantors who love God enough that they are willing to share their talents for worship- period. Am I wrong?

Hmmm�.

I suspect that if the Oxford English Dictionary has room for Homer Simpson�s �Doh!� then there must be room for the noun �cantor� to be used as a verb.

Thank you to everyone for their kind responses. Who knows, maybe someday it would be something I would be interested in doing...

Hmmmmm and I'll admit that I'm not happy with this one - but here our unpaid Cantors cant

Ah, but here ours CAN!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhhhh :p

If Jim is both willing and happy to share his musical ability with his congregation for the good of his parish church without any remuneration, he is certainly not wrong. He is generous - and generosity is to be treasured. What is wrong is demanding that other people be generous, and/or taking someone else's generosity for granted. May God bless Jim abundantly - and may God bless our parishes to realize that generosity does not come to order.
Not long ago, there was a thread on the Forum begun by a young man on the West Coast who was chanting in his parish church, at what appears to be some personal sacrifice, and who was loudly abused by a parishioner for his pains. I'm willing to wager rather more than the proverbial nickel that the young chanter was not being paid the proverbial red cent. Do we really believe that the services of a good chanter are worth nothing? Incognitus

...italics by STeve P.....

It would seem that for the last 25-30 years that would be the case. I suppose then, that we cantors (chanters), who chant without stipend, are doing the church a disservice by allowing such thinking?

The Church/Parish sees the cantor (chanter) as an avocation, a service, done out of love of liturgy without regard to their chanting ability, therefore it shouldn't be a paid postition.....

Personally, I feel that in some cases a regular stipend might help foster more involvement. It is a delicate balance though. How is pay for a cantor (chanter) determined? Who decides? Where do the funds come from? These questions are probably the prime reason so few parishes have paid cantors. The paid cantors (chanters) that I do know are gifted in voice and depth of knowledge, though not necessarily appreciated by their parish.

AS an avocation, unpaid, the duty of cantor (chanter) becomes more of an issue of who has the fortitude to weather such diatribes of malcontent parishioners and soldier on, week after week.

Those who stick to it whether paid or unpaid have a great responsibility in maintaining the integrity of the liturgical chants.

Just my couple 'o cents,

Steve

Christ is born! Glorify Him!

The ministry of Cantor (which, by the way, is the word as it was used in the old country)was most certainly a position which was recompensed. It would not be quite accurate to call it 'salaried' because it was not uncommon for both priest and cantor to receive "in kind" payment, along with a house and firewood, for their ministerial services.

Many of the first parishes organized in this country had stipended cantors, when they could get them; this assumed, of course, that those men were diploma-ed from the Cantor Institute conducted at the Seminary.

However, that custom (in general)died a very quick death in the U.S.A. Having said that, it is my belief (which is easily substantiated by some research) that it has never totally died out here. But I am referring to "stipends," not to "salaries."

Should it happen? It would be most adventageous to the whole Church. Will it happen? I don't foresee it at any time in the near future.

(Prof.) J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA

What were the duties of the Cantor in the old country? As one the probably few people in the village who was literate (adult literacy in Sub-Carpathia broke the 50% mark only in the Communist era) thay probably had substantial teaching duties in addition to chanting. A lot of things are different here.

It may or may not already be the practice, but ISTM that a parish should certainly undertake to subsidize costs of training and regular trips to Cantor institutes/workshops at regionaa and national levels. This woudl be good for the quality of chanting, probably a lot of fun, and a nice perk of the job. I would guess that targeted fund-raising for this purpose would enjoy great success. I'll certainly ante up.

Beyond this, it's not clear what kind of compensation monetary would be appropriate. Anyone want to suggest a figure?

Yes, the cantor in the villages was a person of special importance, and as a literate person he often was also engaged in a teaching role.

He was nearly always with the priest, whether it be sick calls, house blessings, etc. I was looking at some old parish photos at the Eparchial museum in Stamford and saw pictures of diaki teaching children catechism amongst other things.

Bl. Volodymyr Pryjma, one of the new Martyrs beatified by the Pope during his recent trip to Ukraine, was the village cantor of Stradch accompanying Fr. Mykola Konrad to another village to assist him with Divine Liturgy, sick calls, etc. They were both killed together in 1941 by the NKVD. That's what cantors "do".

Critics:

Incognitus recalled the thread about the cantor who experienced some form of criticism or rejection by a member of the congregation. The elder cantor I have worked with provides a practical solution: invite the critic to join the cantors, so that he/she can help improve things. His experience has been that the criticism usually stops at that point.

Reimbursement:

I can be reimbursed for some out of pocket expenses (stipends as Prof. Thompson might say) that help me do a better job as cantor. I suspect that is true in many more parishes currently than has been stated so far. Some such expenses probably include music software, printing costs, and cost of service materials.

Small t traditions in cantoring:

My understanding of cantoring in the old country is that styles, sources, etc. varied from parish to parish. One common standard for all would not appear to be in keeping with that. When trying to find the most authentic approach, how does this factor in, assuming it is correct?

There is another dilemma: getting congregations to embrace liturgical changes. Some parishes just don't follow in the wake of the changes. There is a need for practical resources that are relatively easy to use without sacrificing content to the "dumbing down" approach, sources that take into account the people in the pews (I know I'm being a champion of the obvious, I suppose.) .

Just my thoughts.

Hmmm.

I've said it before - in the US at least, cantors are the most important liturgical afterthought in the church.

Priests are important - we had seminaries in the Old Country - we have seminaries in the new.

Cantors? Well, we had professional level cantor colleges in the old country - we have only begun to train cantors at the eparchial/metropolitan level here, and the quality of the programs vary.

With respect to our venerable tradition of liturgy in the vernacular, for years music was considered of secondary importance. We have had books with stripped-down music, where there was any music at all, and it was customary for many priests to complain about the singing at their parish - as if people without resources could magically change things while the Eparchy continued to emit new books without notation - that didn't necessarily fit the "old" music. Sink or swim. We have only recently begun to have authoritative music with English translations. (I don't buy the idea that any cantor worth their salt must also be able to fluently read Slavonic in Cyrillic.)

Up until very recently, we as Church have not put a lot of effort into assuring there was a useful, affordable musical toolset available at the parish level. Cantors have also been on ther own in seeking vocal training (which is NOT cheap) - at least those who understood the need for it.

I submit that while the cantor is awfully important in the liturgical life of the church, there's been a tremendous disconnect in this country, and it's not just at the parish level.

Things are changing, but it's a slow process. God bless the folks working hardest to change it.

No, most of us don't get "paid." There's usually something at Christmas, and folks who can afford a nice wedding and/or baptism also usually remember the folks who sing it - but I will also readily take half a day off work to bury someone - no matter what - because that's one of the works of mercy we do as Church.

For me, being a cantor is something I do because I can, and because I think I've been called to do it. St. Paul spoke of the different gifts people are given for the upbuilding of the church. Some folks teach, some folks preach, some folks give generously. Me, I sing (and cashier Bingo, and work assiduously at making strangers feel welcome).

Slightly scattered-ly yours,

Sharon

In the old country, where the people don't have a lot of money, but somehow the Churches are filled with gold-plated testaments to their love of God, the Cantor/Psalti is quite well-established as an honorable and much-needed vocation.

The Orthodox Church of Albania even has a "cantor" or "psalti" track at their seminary.

Each priest has an assigned psalti, although depending upon availability, the priest may conduct services, visits, etc. with another psalti from the diocesan "pool."

The psalti is usually paid a percentage of the receipts. What that percentage is exactly, I don't know. Perhaps this percentage is paid only up to a certain absolute monetary limit, lest the Cathedral's psalt make $50,000 per year. Needless to say, the grieving, the marrying, the baptizing are surrounded by at least one priest and a minor clergyman (the cantor).

Having a priest & cantor duo also allows the priest to make home visits without people "inventing" scandals regarding "what he was doing in there at the young widow's home."

My own experience as a tonsured Reader (cantor/psalti) since 1997 reflects much of what others have posted above. As a result of receiving no stipend and often no renumeration even for "personal services" such as baptisms and funerals, I find it very easy to remain at my regular job (where they actually pay me), take side work as an interpreter (which also pays well), or remain at home (where my seven month old rewards me for my loyalty to the family with sloppy wet kisses on my nose).

I'm also not optimistic about the future of the cantor/psalti in North America.

With love in Christ born and glorified,
Reader Andrew

Andrew, that is a very good point. A Psaltist/diak/cantor track should be made available not only at the seminary level but also through perhaps more regional workshops, etc. so the parishes can have easier access. But again, that takes time to plan and execute and given the size of our country also necesssitates travel costs. But certainly worth looking into.

In preparing future chanters, there is certainly a need for meetings in person. But much can also be done with the use of recordings, videos and other modern aids to long-distance education and discussion. These possibilities should not be neglected, even though they also cost money. Incognitus

Dear Brethren,

I hope that my previous post didn't sound overly mercenary, but "the workman is worthy of his wages."

Most of the chanters that I know are also strong contributors to their parishes, local monasteries, dioceses, and other charitable undertakings. The very modest stipends or salaries paid to them are going to end up back in Christ's Church anyway. It is not the same as hiring an outside contractor to repair the plumbing. In this case, the money goes "down the drain" (if I may ).

Part of why the cantor/psalti should be paid has to do with accountability. The stipend makes him accountable to be present when needed (within reason). And if we go with the model of a "pool" of chanters/psaltis, we find that one of them is likely to be available, even, for example, on a Tuesday morning for a funeral service. The chanter who actually serves would receive something "extra" from the family for this service, above his stipend.

However, it has been my observation that the cantors/psaltis tend to make themselves available even without the stipend and even without the "extra," thus perpetuating the current situation.

In Christ,
Andrew

I am personally acquainted - to my sorrow - with an otherwise excellent chanter, who is completely undependable. He will readily agree to come and chant for any occasion one might wish to name, and will then fail to appear, whether there is money involved or not (this young man is far from being financially well off, and could use the money). Haven't seen him for a year or so (how suprising!) and I don't know of a church in town, of any denomination, willing to give him yet another opportunity.
But if I found a chanter who could be depended upon to appear when scheduled without the promise of financial reward, that would be exactly the man who should be given every encouragement, including monetary remuneration. Incognitus

Dear Incognitus,

It sounds like a problem of a deeper sort than mere absenteeism.

A chanter/reader/psalti, if tonsured, is technically assigned to a parish and is responsible to the proistamenos (leading presbyter) of that parish.

While I usually "tell" my priest at my assigned parish if I'll be there or at some other parish, I certainly feel obligated to keep him in the know. Of course, if he or the bishop wanted to restrict my wanderings, they certainly have the authority to do so.

A cantor most definitely belongs to a diocese and a parish. Minor clergy.

In Christ,
Andrew

At least in the Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic Church in the US, cantors are currently [I/]not[/I] clergy, minor or major. I expect that that's probably a mercy, as so many of us are women. We serve the parishes where we attend - it's not a matter of being assigned anywhere.

As for keeping committments, that's a matter of courtesy and dependability, not a matter of being ordained or paid.

Cheers,

Sharon

Dear Mother Sharon,

In your jurisdiction, as I understand it, the cantors/readers are not formally tonsured by their bishop. If that is the case, then they should, as you state, serve wherever they choose to attend. They are free (in Christ, of course).

This is similar to a man "blessed" to serve as a subdeacon during a particular service. When the service is over, he is not (technically) bound by the canons particular to the clergy.

The canons regarding minor clergy refer only to the tonsured Readers and ordained Subdeacons.

In the Christ born in a cave by the Most Holy Theotokos,
Andrew

Dear Andrew,
The instance that I described is almost certainly indicative of a problem with the chanter in question that goes beyond mere absenteeism - I've met quite a variety of clergy and laity who have been burned by this particular musician, and no one known to me has succeeded in giving him any assistance. I have no specific idea of what the underlying problem(s) may be, but I think that the chanter in question needs help far beyond any that I have to offer. Any further description on my part would be speculative and uncharitable. I've said as much as I have only because I'm writing anonymously, which makes it quite unlikely that anybody could identify the chanter from reading these two postings. It's always sad and frustrating to find someone with genuine talents and abilities who leaves nothing but bad experiences in his wake. Incognitus

Dear Sharon,

At first I scratched my head at women cantors, but then I remembered that our Greek Orthodox churches have choirs as well as cantors, and that the choirs are filled with women!

You must have a beautiful voice!

In Christ our Lord,
Alice

Alice,

Would that the soul matched!


Andrew,

I get a chuckle out of the notion that we are free to attend any church. If we are talking about choice in Byzantine churches, well, within the Parma Eparchy, outside of the greater Cleveland area, that freedom is pretty danged meaningless without a Star Trek Transporter, or mebbe a Stargate.


(Open the iris please)


Cheers,

Sharon
(who may not make it to church to sing this evening, if it turns out I'm coming down with whatever my kid has..)

I think that we've touched upon (see Alice's post) the issue of antiphonal cantors/chanters/choirs with the men on one side and the women on the other. I like the idea and have seen it operate beautifully in a Cathedral setting, although I have nothing against combined/mixed (Male & Female) Byzantine or Slavic (four-part) style choirs. I simply find the antiphonal set-up to be superior.

The Presbyter and singers need to divide up the service, clearly indicating which pieces will be chanted by which choir. In this way, each piece (varying week to week) is clearly sung male or female. What this does is encourage the faithful to join in.

It is very hard for women to follow a male psalti/chanter because of the great difference in tonality. But they can easily follow a female chanter. The reverse is also true.

The only real difference between two said choirs is that some of the males would have been tonsured, are probably studying or rather young, and may later be ordained. The older professional male "psaltis" will be few in number, hopefully have a stipend (as I would hope the director of the female choir would also have), and accompany priests and deacons on their travels and special services.

Any comments?

In Christ,
Andrew

Just a follow-up.

I was at a small Greek Orthodox parish for the Theophany service. They had approx. 100 attendees on that Tuesday morning, mostly all immigrants.

They have a professional (and I assume "paid")cantor/psalti who has a regular job somewhere else. He is a good example of what a good cantor should be. He doesn't try to dominate the service. He has been teaching the congregants to sing along for all of the regularly-repeated parts of the Matins and Divine Liturgy. Most of them also seemed to know the Troparion of the Theophany by heart. At those times, frequently, he would step away from the microphone so that their voices could be heard.

It was most beautiful. Although I don't know the Liturgy in Greek all that well, I found myself trying to join them anyway.

Congregational singing, in combination with choirs and cantors, has its part in the Eastern tradition, especially in these more intimate settings. I highly recommend it.

In Christ,
Andrew

What often goes unnoticed are the stipends listed in the eparchial statutes for cantors. Marriages and funerals have their own statutory stipend. How many people know about this? Check with your eparchy to see what they are. Each pastor should have a copy of the statutes for his eparchy tucked away somewhere.

These statutory stipends are typically ignored and the parishioners are usually never told about them. Cantors sometimes have to take vacation days from work to assist at a funeral without ever a thank you or stipend. Its a part of life. But many cantors do it because it needs to be done and not because one expects a thank you or a stipend. Some cantors have chanted at weddings and funerals for years without ever getting monetary compensation in kind. This situation is usually taken advantage of, hence the desire to keep a 'volunteer' cantorship. Cantors are a dime a dozen. Secretaries, lawncare-givers, and janitors are not. Its all about priorities. As long as cantors don't know about the statutes, they don't have to be applied, right?

My wife's former Latin parish won't let a family leave the church until the organist gets paid, funeral or wedding. Many organists are organized and people know they "have to pay the organist and cantor." //You don't feel the need to pay, you don't get the music for pray.// My wifes' Baptist friends still don't understand how our church gets by without compensating its music ministers. Their music ministers are paid and are very busy providing their houses of worship with a lot of singing material.

But don't interpret my observations and comments as an argument for compulsory salaries for cantors. We just learned to get by doing things differently today than generations ago. The ordained cantorship that gets its working papers from the bishop is long gone as well as the obedience that comes with ordination. Cantorship is now provided 'from below' - volunteers who come forward from the ... pew. Our bishops and pastors have allowed this institution to die - along with our plainchant and multitude of services.

This topic is oftentimes difficult to bring up without being branded a money-seeking opportunist. Let me restate this again. This topic is oftentimes difficult to bring up without being branded a money-seeking opportunist. Anytime money is mixed with ministry it is suspect unless, of course, it deals with paying pastors and the obligatory cathedricum.

Believe me, if money WAS really the issue, many cantors would have found greener grass elsewhere than small Greek Catholic parishes with beautifully manicured landscaping. Many cantors have a job elsewhere and really don't need a stipend or the extra stress. Any money paid can only help pay for liturgical texts, copy music, etc. to develop the craft, which in turn will only help improve (hopefully) the singing in the parishes. I know many cantors who never heard about our liturgical texts - even in today's environment of ultra-hyper communication means. Many questions and problems are usually level-one difficulty that can be answered if a cantor had proper books in front of him/her.

Do these issues EVER come up at pastoral advisory meetings?

With money also comes cooperation. If somoeone is paid a stipend (or salary), a reciprocal relationship now exists between cantor and pastor. Reciprocaty implies a loss of control/power, mutual cooperation, and duties to be performed. Keeping a particular ministry as a 'volunteer' basis will only encourage aloofness from a much needed and much neglected service to the community.

In the past, the cantor was paid and the lawn was mowed by volunteer parishioners. Today, the lawncare-givers are paid and the cantors are volunteers. The flow of money usually reflects our priorities. The outside of our temples is more important than what goes on inside, especially the quality of singing. We are a product of our culture that awards those with nice bods and no brains, and ignores or stresses out those who stay late or who gets those things done that need to be done.

If you think what I wrote is nonsense, then I will gladly provide you with words from a Melkite bishop who wrote on the same topic about our incultured priorities regarding lawncare, secretaries, and cantors.

Joe

The chanter whom Andrew describes in the Greek parish has aroused covetousness and greed in my sinful heart (and on Christmas, too). By any chance does this chanter have the power of bilocation? Incognitus

I'm still mulling on the idea that women find it difficult to follow a male cantor, and men find it difficult to follow a woman.

In my experience, it ain't so - unless the pitch is wildly inappropriate, or the cantor doesn't want to be followed - a variable inependent of gender.

Puzzled....

Sharon

P.S. Joe - I didn't know there were eparchial guidelines on stipends. Haven't heard much about the eparchial guidelines on anything except sexual abuse prevention in YEARS.

Dear Cantor Joe,

You are "right on the money."

My sympathies are with you.

In Christ,
Cantor Andrew

Dear Incognitus,

He's on the new calendar!

He's not bilocational (that's why he rushes back to his day job after the services). You'd probably have to be received into the Patriarchate of Constantinople and then petition his bishop to cut him in half .

Or just move to Philadelphia. Yes, I know, a fate worse than death.

In Christ,
Andrew

Dear Sharon,

I guess that it may be more fair to say that it is more difficult for females or males to follow a cantor of the opposite gender than one of their own.

In the anecdote that I posted above (from the Theophany Liturgy) there didn't seem to be a big problem following this baritone Psalt.

However, in my own case, I think that females have trouble following since I'm a tenor. I admit that this may have nothing to do with tonality, but with technique, style and personality: [The soprano choir member asked the new singer, "And good Sir, what part do you sing?" He replied, "Madame, I am a tenor." "Tenor?" she shrieked, "That's not a part! Its a disease!" ]

In Christ,
Andrew

The punch line I heard for this joke was "you know they have medication for that now"...

Dear Diak,

How on earth did you know that I had just received my Pharmacare Prescription Card?

In Christ,
Andrew

Andrew,

Don't forget this gem:

A mixed choir consists of: sopranos, altos, tenors... and men.

Old cantors never die. They just sing a few steps lower.

Dear Andrew,
"I was in Philadelphia one night - it was closed."
Incognitus