www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Carnegie, Pittsburgh, and Eastern Christians

I'm trying to discover more about the anscestors of the families in my Church. How might I research the history of Carnegie and the Eastern Christians of Pittsburgh? I understand Carnegie wasn't the kindest or most generous of employers.

Dan Lauffer

Were immigrants grossly taken advantage of during the turn of the century? Where might I find some solid information?

Dan Lauffer

Dan:

Sorry I can't offer you any scholarly sources in your quest. Carnegie, as I was taught in Pa. History Class in elementary school, was a shrewd, dictatorial individual... but weren't most of the steel, coal, railroad barons of that time? However, despite his treatment of his workers (which needs to be weighed in historical context), he did provide money for the founding of many, many public libraries. In addition, but not that well known, he gave money to churches to purchase and install pipe organs. The original pipe organ in the Methodist Church in my hometown was obtained with the help of Carnegie. (I don't know if he limited himself to assisting only Methodist Churches.) Not defending the man, per se, but people can be complex and often are a reflection of their times.

From a former Pa. guy.

[ 08-15-2002: Message edited by: moncobyz ]

Monocobyz,

You're are right about the complexity of us all. I am not as concerned about Carnegie as I am about learning about the anscestors of the beloved people in my new Church home. Does the movie Deer Hunter starring Robert Deniro properly depict life in Western Pa., especially for Eastern Christians?

Dan Lauffer

Dan:

Some background on the "Deer Hunter." The exterior shots (mills, town, etc.) were shot in Mingo Junction, Ohio, downriver from P'burg. The wedding scene was filmed at St. Theodosius Orthodox in Cleveland. The "mountains" in the hunting scenes... that ain't Pennsylvania! Must have been cheaper/more convenient to do those shots out west somewhere (Rockies?).

As to whether the film depicts the life of Eastern Europeans accurately, I don't know as I grew up in a rural area of Western Pa. We had mining (hometown about 15 miles from Quecreek of the Quecreek 9) but mainly farming. Very few BCs/EOs in my end of the county. Most folks northern European or Italian ancestory.

Although I enjoyed "Deer Hunter" for a number or reasons, the movie that hit home more for me was---believe it or not---"All the Right Moves," an early Tom Cruise movie filmed in Johnstown, Pa. It really portrayed (albeit the not-so-good side) of the mentality of the area.

Another great movie filmed in J'town was "Slapstick," with Paul Newman (about a minor league hockey team). It, too, to some degree gave some insight into what a 2nd generation Polish friend of mine from back home calls the "Mill-Hunkie Mentality." An example of which is the guys sitting around the "club" saying they just heard a rumor that Bethlehem Steel is going to reopen. They've been repeating that rumor in one form or another every week for the last 25 years.

Those that have had the opportunity/motiviation/education have since left the area. Go into any church back home (RC, BC, EO, Prot.) and count the number of empty pews and the large percentage of "blue hairs."

Unfortunately, the region's greatest export now is not coke, coal, or steel, it's its young people.

Yes, the exterior shots were done in Washington State, in the "Deer Hunter". I was living out there when they were filing it. Looks old to see it now.

That slapstick movie was, in fact, "Slapshot". (You might like to know that the "goons" were actual players on the local hocky team.)

djs

DJS:

Yep. You're right... I was having an all-to-frequent brain synapse failure. The goons (Hansen Brothers) played hockey for real. They also appeared in Slapshot II... a film of absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Even their scenes were not funny.

(Sorry, Dan, for getting off the subject of Andrew Carnegie.)

I assume Carnegie-Mellon University is named such because of his influence. Also, P'burg has the Carnegie Museum.

[ 08-15-2002: Message edited by: moncobyz ]

The script of the Deer Hunter had the story set in Clairton, Pa.

From the essay at
http://www.myfreeessays.com/film/003.shtml

"An Academy Award winning movie The Deer Hunter highlights the events of a group of steelworking deer hunting friends and their encounters before, during, and after the Viet Nam War. Ohio was host to fifty percent of this movie's cinematography with Cleveland as the central location of the United States filming. The Ohio Film Bureau's assistant manager Michele Kuhar spent 6 months with the production corporation EMI films and its site locators in Cleveland helping them finalize a 6-week location schedule that would be shot in Ohio.
In the third week of July 1977, Michael Cimino started directing on several different locations in the Tremont area.
The first was in the U.S. Steel Corporations blast furnace in the Flats. The actual cast house that Cimino wanted to shot in was a very dangerous area. The extras filmed in the cast house were workers from the U.S. Steel blast furnace cast house for safety purposes. As the movie progresses to the wedding scene, the film used Saint Theodosius' Choir and attendees of the church as extras to give the authenticity of the wedding. This scene is a good representation of Saint Theodosius Cathedral because during the wedding the view of the enormous and elaborate church is caught from every angle of the camera. Likewise, with the introduction to Lemko Hall for the wedding reception. They show the beautiful woodwork and pictures on the wall with a wide view lens. There is a scene where DeNiro's character is at the bar. The bar does not remain in Lemko but you can stand on the worn out wood flooring that contrasts with the wood floor that did not wear as much under the bar. One of the last scenes shot in Tremont was DeNiro and Walken are running drunk down the street, that Street was Literary Avenue. It is probably one of the most important scenes because it shows the similarity of Tremont to that of the narrow streets in San Francisco. This scene would not have been matched unless it had been shot in Tremont."

Moncobyz,

You use this term:

"Mill-Hunkie Mentality" Bridgett used a similar term to describe the Eastern Europeans who form the history of our Church. What does this term mean?

Dan Lauffer

Dan:

A bunch of links on Slavic immigrant miners--
http://www.iarelative.com/mines.htm

About conditions for steel workers in Pittsburgh:
http://www.history.ohio-state.edu/projects/PittsburghSurvey/SteelWorkers/
http://www.wqed.org/erc/pghist/units/WPAhist/wpa5.html
http://www.history.ohio-state.edu/projects/PittsburghSurvey/Pittsburgh/

Happy reading!

Mill-Hunkie (also have heard the term Bo-Hunkie) is/was a derogatory term for anyone from the Slavic Lands (a Hunkie... possibly a bastardization of "a Hungarian" ...after all, they all look alike ). The use of "Bo," as in Bo-Hunkie, could that be from the word Boh(a)/Boga for "God"? I'll let that to our professional linquists out there in cyberspace.

There was some controversy about 15 or so years ago when a statue was dedicated in Pittsburgh in memory of the "Polack" steel workers. I'm a little hazy on the details, but I believe this derogatory term for someone of Polish background (again, I've heard it in reference to anyone of Slavic ancestory) was used on the statue itself. Although a number of Polish and other Slavic folks were upset about the word, many saw it as a vindication of their people, who faced prejudice and extremely difficult and humiliating circumstances, turning them around and building a decent life for their families and educating their children.

Also... just heard there is controversy a-brewin' in Windber, Pa. (just south of Johnstown). There is to be a monument/plaque erected to the area's coal miners. Apparently, the wording of the monument likens the status of the workers to that of pre-Civil War slaves. Windber was/is populated by many Eastern Europeans and Italians.

bo�hunk
n. Offensive Slang
Used as a disparaging term for a person from east-central Europe, especially a laborer.
[Bo(hemian) + alteration of Hung(arian).]

Dan, you might find the site for the Johnstown Area Hertiage Museum to be interesting:
http://www.jaha.org/discenter/disc_centr.htm

djs

[ 08-15-2002: Message edited by: djs ]

Lemko and djs,

Thank you so much for all of these leads. I'm going to be busy for a few days.

Dan Lauffer

Dan:

Re: Bo-Hunk "Mentality."

Bo-Hunk Mentality, a term I've often heard folks of Slavic ancestory use, could best characterized as someone who is xenophobic, ethnocentric, very suspicious of new ideas/innovations, can not "think out of the box," and would not understand the concept of "win-win."

As a non-Slav, of Northern European ethnicity, I mean no disrespect. In fact, we WASPy types have this kind of individual too. Where I'm from we call them "hard-headed Dutchmen." And they (albeit very God-fearing, hardworking, conscientious, and CLEAN individuals) can be the most infuriating folks to deal with. Everything is viewed from an "us-them" perspective with the "us" being right all the time. No room for discussion

Now... is this attitude a product or nature or nurture? Is it the natural result of the hardships these groups faced in mines, on farms, or in mills (such as those run by Carnegie)? Well, now many of the mills and mines are shut down, and family farms are barely keeping afloat. Maybe in the long run the challenges of our technologically/consumer-oriented society will be far worse on us than the dangers and oppression faced by our ancestors.

[ 08-15-2002: Message edited by: moncobyz ]