www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Sad News: Mel Gibson

Over the past year, a retired bi-ritual priest of Parma, the spiritual director of my priest, had been invited to be the Chaplain at Mel Gibson's private chapel, where family members of a friend of mine were also regular attendees. Sadly, both this priest and said lay people have had to end their association with Mr. Gibson as he has fallen back into full-blown sedevacantism. My sources are, sadly, unimpeachable. I shall pray for Mr. Gibson, but until I hear otherwise, I shall no longer watch his movies.

Then I guess you don't watch any movies to begin with?

No, mostly only cartoons (where all the real creativity is) and devotional programming

Regardless of the source isn't passing them along, second or third hand really just gossip?

What the heck is this term? We should be using terms that normal people can understand!

I'm sorry, Carole, you are surely right. I'm just a depressed Latin, who in this Pascha season feels like one at the bedside of a dying mother. Though not of the older generation (38), I discovered and came to love the old ways of my church. Yet the faithful and orthodox grow ever fewer, with secularists devouring the left, and sedevacantists devouring the right, with teh culture at large gloating and revelling in our division, weakness, and decline. Every disaster cheered in the general media. Every orthodox belief mocked and scorned. The East is a wonderful place to be, but sadly I have experienced more than one easterner, Catholic as often as orthodox, who now with the "shoe on the other foot" so to speak, seem to take a sadistic glee in our suffering. Is schadenfreude a sin?

Deacon John, pray for me, and please remove this thread. I am sorry I posted.

Dear Timbot,

It was my understanding that Mel Gibson was a sede-vacanist all along. Yes, this is sadly what happens to some who are fed up with the modernism and craziness in the Latin Rite.

But you know, what bothers me more than people being out of communion with Rome is self-righteousness. You really mean to say that you won't watch anyone's movies unless they are in full communion with the Pope? Who are you to judge Mel Gibson?

I have an idea... why don't we just go back to burning people at the stake? Or at least branding them with a letter, so that they'll be shunned by the "Catholic faithful"?

You might think I'm being facetious, but it's the same phariseeical mentality.

God bless,

Karen

Sorry, I am depressed. He was showing some progress a while back, and it was somewhat a comfort that at least one person of such prominence could be Catholic.
You are right, I am wrong, better I should be on the stake instead. The ashes would be more useful than I am.

Dear Timbot,

Christ is risen!

I understand your disappointment, and I'm sorry if I was a tad harsh in my last post... perhaps I should take my own words about self-righteousness to heart.

But just think how much good he has done-- he is a strong, publicly practicing Christian celebrity who had the guts to make a movie about the passion and death of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ. He loves the Lord, and he has helped bring many people to Him. Does it really matter that much that he's not in full communion with Rome?

And he could certainly come around. I know people who have done complete 180 turn-arounds in their faith life. So don't be depressed, Timbot.

God bless,

Karen

I am saddened by many things within the Latin Church...however Mr. Gibson's practice of his faith is not mine to judge...that belongs solely to the Lord.

Christus resurrexit !

james

And she's not kidding! She knows my husband and I. You don't get any more of a turn-around that us. From avowed atheists to devout Catholics in less than 5 years.

God can work miracles.

Have faith and pray!

Bergschlawiner,

Sedevacantism (the See is vacant)is the belief that the See of Peter is vacant without a Pope. They hold to the most rigid form of Tridentine Catholicism, rejecting all ecumenism and usually the sacraments of the Catholic Church in communion with the Pope (in their eyes anti-pope). They believe Pius XII was the last true Pontiff (some except Blessed John XXIII) and all others are anti-popes. The larger groups the Society of St. Paul V and the Congregation of Mary Immacualte Queen refuse to attempt to elect a rival pontiff, instead praying for the conversion of the Catholic Church.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Ok..... This all has to stop.

I know it's the Town Hall and what not, but there has been a lot of posting about Roman Catholics and the problems of the new Mass and Vatican 2 and mega-churches with crazy priests and all that.

Please, take your grievances elsewhere. This is an Eastern Christian Forum.

Please, take your baggage elsewhere. Take it to the plethora of Roman Catholic forums that are out there.

The problem that the Eastern Catholic churches and parishes have is the overwhelming influence of Roman Catholicism (which can ruin a parish) and it seems to be creeping onto this forum.

Let's try to maintain this aa an Eastern Christian forum as the Administrator often reminds us that it is. I signed up here 4 years ago because it is an EASTERN forum. Not a Roman one. Although sometimes it tends to be one.

And let's not speculate on rumors about Mel Gibson. It has NOTHING to do whatsoever to any Eastern Christian Church. It is just idle speculation from this source and that source.

Wise up, people.

-uc

Carole, I could just SEE you on EWTN's "The Journey Home", telling Marcus Grodi everything... he'd be falling off his chair!
:p

God bless,

Karen

I would agree. Except that what happens in the Roman Catholic Church does have an effect upon the Eastern Catholic Churches.

Both because of the Roman Rite Catholics who come to the Eastern Rites. Which is not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself because while some come out of a desire to find something less abuse filled than their current Latin Mass many of those stay for love of the Eastern Rite.

And because like it or not, accept it or not, being "in communion with" the Roman See also means be subject to the Roman See. What Rome does and does not do indeed does have an effect upon the Eastern Rites.

Discussion of the other Church with whom we are in communion (or rather subject to) is natural and to be expected.

What affects one affects all.

[

Fair enough, and true enough, and good enough. I will post here no longer. This forum is, in my opinion, simply too good for the likes of me.

Dear Timbot,

Do you have self-esteem issues, or what? I don't think you're particularly "loathsome." We don't want you to stop posting here.

My brother, we're all sinners... so trust me, you're in good company at ByzCath. Please don't leave because you feel too sinful or whatever.

God bless,

Karen

Maybe I should follow a very narrow minded path and confine my prayers to only Latins...

Sorry but I believe UC's statement is uncharitable and arrogant...especially during Pascha...time again for a pause that refreshes


james

Timbot,

When I first started posting here I had similar thoughts. This board is unique and unlike any other I have ever been on - it can be difficult at first to find your niche in the group and feel comfortable.

Don't leave because one post made you feel uncomfortable or unwelcome.

I know that this is a daunting place and some of the opinions are expressed in ways that are not welcoming to a new poster just feeling things out. But if you stick around long enough to learn who is who (like on any board there are personality conflicts) you'll receive much for your persitence!

God bless,

Carole

Most of my post was directed at everyone in the Forum. I have recently seen a lot of threads regarding complaints about Ash Wednesday, Evangelical Catholic Megaparishes, Opus Dei, this and that and I just find it frustrating.

That is all.

Then I brought up Mel Gibson. It really is rumors, no? Unless someone here meets him and asks him, then we can discuss whether he is a schismatic or not. I have met him a few times (he is known to show up at Ukrainian Catholic parishes here on the West Coast) and he has gone to Communion.... but I digress. Discussing rumors is really idle talk.

I did not mean to make anyone feel unwelcome, and if you look at my posting history, I do welcome new members. It revitalizes our parishes and I find much joy when someone discovers the East.

But also if you read my posting history, I don't take kindly to those who use our Churches as a refugee camps because of some baggage they hold (like Tridentines and SSPX types who ruin parishes).

So really, I did not mean to chase away or offend Timbot. I was just expressing my feelings about a new wave of RC related threads and posts that IMO have no relavance to us as Eastern Christians.

And also, Moderators of this Forum have reminded us not to discuss or entertain rumors, because they are just that, rumors. And if it causes it to belittle a person, such as Mel Gibson, then perhaps as Jakub likes to put it, it isn't in the best interest of the Paschal Season, right??

-uc

UC -

I absolutely agree with you on the issue of rumours, and the discuss of whether or not Mel Gibson (or anyone for that matter) is sedevacantist is not necessary or beneficial to the community at large. Unless of course the person in question were publically spouting such beliefs themselves - at which point it would not be gossip but may still not be of benefit to the community.

But discussions of other goings on in the Church do have an effect on the Eastern Rites as we are all connected.

I also agree with the issue of having a problem with those who seek out and attend Eastern Rite parishes only as a refuge from the perceived abuses and intolerable conditions in the Latin Rite parishes.

I found the Eastern Rites through a certain disquiet with the Latin Rite - a friend recommended it, I was curious and I attended. I stayed in the Ruthenian parish not because I was hiding from the problems of the Latin Rite - but because I love the Eastern Rites.

But regardless of why Latin Rite Catholics are attending Eastern Rite parishes ... the fact is that they are there and we are all in communion with Rome. So what affects them affects us. It is natural that Eastern Rite Catholics should discuss these issues.

Perhaps it has been dwelt upon a bit too much in the past weeks. I just don't see how to avoid the topic completely.

It is the responsibility of the moderators and administrators to evaluate the topic/subjects posted...although I am noted as a member, I am really a visitor...unless I change my choice of rite or "Dox"...but I do my best not to cast stones or lash out at anyone...and do bite the bullet on many occasions...and have refrained from those Latin thingies...

If the topic is not presented on how it is related to the East in some form freeze it and have the poster rephrase it...a humble suggestion...

Christ has risen...alleluia

james

James

I felt rather like you at one time - I apologised publicly and said I should not be posting on an Eastern thread [ can't even remember what it was now ] as I was a guest here .

In seconds flat there was a response from Admin - saying that I was not a guest - I was family.

You too have been here a long time - you are family as well - like Carole [ oh I remember her arrival ] and indeed everyone .

We need you here - all of you . Byzcath is a family , and like all families at times we have disagreements - but they pass.

It's true a lot of what happens in the RCC affects us - we may not like it - but it does.

The point is well made, that so far what has been said re Mel Gibson is not in the public domain - so perhaps we should wait a while longer and see what comes out ?

Anhelyna - who has just surprised herself as she realises that for once she has really posted as an EC Member

Why would one refuse to watch a Sedevacantist's movies just because of his religious views?

Sedevacantism, as offensive as it may seem to be at times, is totally Catholic in every way except for it's rejecting the validity of the current and past few popes.

Would you also refuse to watch movies directed by an Eastern Orthodox person? Or a Protestant?

If the answer to those is "no," I fail to see your logic.

On top of all that, we know Mr. Gibson cares deeply for his Catholic Faith, though it is flawed, and you'd be hardpressed to find another Hollywood director who feels anything similar.

Logos Teen

P.S. UkrainianCatholic, we know this is an Eastern Forum but that is why we have the Town Hall...for all other topics, like what kind of chocolate people are craving during the Fast, political stuff, personal picture Frappr map postings, and...can you even imagine? discussions about the Roman Church!! This entire Town Hall could be nothing but a big discussion about all things Roman Catholic and still you would have zero reason to complain. :rolleyes:

Teen - did you mention that heavenly stuff again

chocolate

CHOCOLATE


mmmmmmmmmmmmm After the last few days here - I NEED SOME CHOCOLATE !!!!!!!!! and I need it NOW

Anhelyna, my apologies!!! Just a little longer, and think how very satisfied you will be!

And, as a Latin, I couldn't part without advising you to "offer it up to God for the good of Holy Mother Church!"

Logos Teen

Several points:

1. One need not be a Christian of the Eastern Tradition in order to be a member of the Forum. Timbot is still one of our newer members with only a few posts but is certainly welcome to stay and further become part of the Forum family, regardless of the faith community he chooses to belong to.

2. There are over 1 billion Roman Catholics in the world and only about 250 million Eastern Christians (Orthodox, Catholic, and etc. counted together). It is neither desirable nor possible to prohibit discussions of what is occurring in the Roman Catholic Church. BUT, discussions should really have some relationship to the Christian East. As stated numerous times, extended discussions on topics specific to the Latin Church don�t really belong on the Forum.

It is sometimes very difficult to know where to draw the line. Moderators use their judgment. The different moderators will have different opinions on this and that is fine. Remember that threads may be closed or deleted and posts may be edited or deleted for any or no reason whatsoever.

3. Discussions such as this one do belong in the Town Hall Forum, as they do not properly fall into one of the other categories.

4. The Forum community reminds the more traditional Roman Catholics that they are very welcome here. In return we remind them that we are not traditionalist Roman Catholics and that the primary focus of discussions should be on the Christian East (or about how some issue affects the Christian East). The Forum really isn�t the place for Roman Catholics to come and grip about the problems they have with the Roman Catholic Church.

5. It seems to me that one could praise Mr. Gibson for his talent at making movies faithful to Holy Tradition (and enjoy them!) at the same time one prays for healing in his relationship with the Church. Had the movie �The Passion of the Christ� been made by a member of any other Christian group (or even a non-Christian) I will still be praising it and the good it has done.

Admin

I admit that I do have many different thoughts and opinions regarding the Church of Rome...but that is between me and my confessor and I hope a forgiving and merciful Lord...(hint)my penance is very time consuming...

In fact, a few of us Latins need to stay here for target practice and stress release ...

james

I can think of one very good reason.

The sedevacantist takes the proceeds and uses them to promote his sedevacantist views. He uses his money to set up a rivial Church and get people though not only his money but his "prestige" to come over to his side.

This is like saying atheists are totally Catholics except for them not beliveing in God.

And one last thing, a couple of questions. Who are we to question someone elses choices? Who are we to demand that their choices be logical? or have what we veiw as good reasons?


David, Byzantine Catholic and Carmelite pre-novice

Let the moviemaker who is without sin throw the first stone!

I think we should judge movies, books and TV shows on their merits. If we look too closely at the creators, we will ALWAYS find something to criticize.

In fact, as I recall, some of the Psalms were written by a guy who had an affair and then murdered his girlfriend's husband. The Psalms are still worth reading, though.

Dear Administrator,

That does it!

I'm nominating Theist Gal (aka "Dolly") for the BEST POST EVER award!

Do you have such an award? If not, can you create one? I heard you can do anything . . .

Hello Dolly!

BRILLIANT, I say, BRILLIANT to your post above!

You're the greatest!!

Alex

Dear David the Byzantine Carmelite,

Hey, how's the Scapular hanging?

Could you explain what the "pre-novitiate" is all about?

Alex

Scapular is hanging great!

I sort of covered it briefly in the other thread that you responded to me in.

If you want more let me know and I can start a new thread.


David, Byzantine Catholic and Carmelite pre-novice

While this is true, no one has to spend there money on anything and we can use any reason that we wish to not spend out money.

Lets also not forget that the author of those Psalms was repentant.

This is why I keep these sort of things to myself. If I think someone is unworthy of my time and money I just don't go and/or buy. No one else really needs to know why I chose what I chose as there is nothing morally wrong with chosing not to spend your money on some form of enterainment.


David, Byzantine Catholic and Carmelite pre-novice

I have spoken today with a priest of my acquaintance who knows Mel Gibson rather well. My friend assures me that Mel Gibson has not gone off to the sede vacantists, and is unlikely to do so.

My friend also pointed out that the senior Mr. Gibson (Mel's father, Hutton Gibson) is indeed a sede vacantist, and that it is highly probable that confusion between father and son is at the bottom of the inaccurate report regarding the son.

In addition, there is no reason to expect Mel Gibson to pick a public fight with his father over the issue.

Incognitus

Dear David of Carmel,

Personally, I think a thread by you to discuss issues concerning your religious development in Carmel would not only be interesting, but also inspiring!

Who knows? Perhaps there may be others here who might get the "monastic bug" and awaken their latent vocation!

As for me, I'm over the hill (or mountain, as the case may be) and, more to this, I'm married . . .

In short, over the hill . . .

Alex

How pre is pre novice in the Carmelites? Is this the stage called postulant or still pre to that?

Are you with the ones with shoes and socks or the ones with the short white cloaks?

Nice to see you back again. Pleased to see all is well.

ICXC
NIKA

I love you, Alex! Will you marry me?

Alex are you moving to Utah ?

james

ps-just discovered I have a Canadian Honda ! What's nxt whiskey and beer ?

Invasion by commerce...quick seal the border...eh

Alex,
I tried something like this but due to negative comments (that were moderatred out) and just the general tone of negativity from from some eastern christians I decided to keep it a bit quite for a time as this reaction really saddened me and put a dent in my vocation and spirituality for a time.

It seems that it is not just our bishops and religious orders that have a mold for vocations but also the laity and if you do not fit their mold they think something is wrong with you.

This is one of the aspects I love in Carmel, you are not only allowed but also encouraged, to be yourself.


David, Byzantine Catholic and Carmelite pre-novice

Dear Dolly,

Alas, we are like two ships that pass in the middle of the night . . .

Praying that we meet at the great Heavenly Wedding Feast, I am,

Your humble adorer servant,

Alex

Dear David,

Never mind then . . .

Although I've never (yet) met you, I do believe you are slated for very special things in God's plan!

You are like the apostle to whom Christ said, "David, follow me" - and you get up and follow, humbly, simply and with complete trust and confidence in the Lord.

May the Most Holy Theotokos of Carmel cover you always with her Scapular as a token of Her heavenly Mantle of Protection.

May Our Lord continue to radiate His love and grace through you to all you come into contact with and minister to!

In Carmel,

Alex

Timbot asked for this thread to be closed, but , I have learned some things about the radical western Rites. As if the EO , we don't have some ultra-rights who think that theirs is the only valid communion. I was a radical western evangelical fundamentalist protestant myself for all but 3 decades, ...let me tell ya Tessa..oy veh..I have seen some things...! mikhailo

You know, I came to the Holy Eastern Orthodox Church, virtually kicking and screaming. The fact that I learned and finally accepted the Dogma of the Ever Virgin, and to boot, that Luther, Zwinglii, Calvin and Wesley all held that view, blew me away. So, that last hurdle was overcome and I was Baptised and Chrismated in our Cathedral in DC. So be it, since then, I have also, as having to accept that there were/are 5 ancient patriarchates, must , even though EO accept that the See of Rome is Ancient and in line with St Peter, that the present Pope is still Bishop of Rome...who can deny. So, there you have it... Mikhailo