www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Soldiers' widows sue for pagan symbols on graves

The following was posted on CNN this morning. I found it to be an interesting and a thorny issue.

Soldiers\' widows sue for pagan symbols on graves [edition.cnn.com]

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Suppose a deceased soldier belonged to some sect which venerated the Swastika - would that be allowed too?

Fr. Serge

This is interesting - in a way Ican see their point
If they are allowed it on their dogtags etc , it does seem curious that they may not have their symbol on a headstone.

A phrase does come to mind here I have to say

Eek. I'm glad my dad and all the other soldiers and marines of my family who are buried in Arlington National Cemetery are buried near people with "big three" religious symbols on their gravestones.

There are many symbols I cannot place, however, without looking at the Army's list. There is an Atheist symbol and you see it from time to time. And a few Christian sects choose not to adorn graves with any symbol at all.

Used to be you had a "Latin cross" for Christians (the Army term for a plain Cross), a Star of David for Jewish folks, and a Crescent for Muslims. That was it. When the list got longer than that to allow for variation within those religions, for additional religions, and for those with no religion at all, you really opened up the door to any symbol. If the Mormons get theirs, why not the Wiccans?

(Oh, and of course, the swastika, albeit not the vile Nazi version, actually shows up in religious art among various religions. When there were some Tibetan monks making a sand mandala on the Mall a couple years back as part of the Folklife Festival, they had one prominently featured in it. Of course, they had an explanation of the symbolism, lest anyone get the wrong idea. It is not on the Army's list of acceptable symbols, however. Let's hope no one ever asks for it.)

Sadly, I just wonder if the only solution will be to eliminate all religious symbols from military graves (at least, new ones). Or, let all religious symbols be included on the graves. The swastika, which actually is a holy symbol in Hinduism and which Hitler later robbed, would have to be excluded. Otherwise, I don't see a middle ground on this.

-- John

John,

I am inclined to agree with you over that, but finding the middle road may not be as simple as most would think. I find this to be unfortunate and only demonstrates a real change in the values of our society. It pains me that now even the dead have to be dragged into these issues.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Many years ago, when I was an undergraduate, I used to make some extra money at the beginning of each term by sorting the "religious preference" cards of the students. There were always a few humorists who gave "Druid" as their religious preference. I was often tempted to send them a mailing, beginning "Fellow Druids" - but I never got around to it.

In those years, Taiz� had a small priory in Chicago and one of the monks was in graduate school. He had to complete a lengthy form with any number of intrusive questions. Early on, the form asked for his "Church Affiliation", so he quite honestly put down "Church of Sweden". Several pages later, the same form asked for his religious preference, to which he answered "none"!

Father Serge

As a veteran and "lifer" I checked and the VA authorizes several Eastern Christian symbols including the Russian Orthodox (3-bar cross), Greek Orthodox and Serbian Orthodox crosses.

Suppose I worship Alfred E. Newman?

[Linked Image]

This is sheer MADness... Just honor the three monotheistic faiths and leave it blank if it is a different faith.

I know, I know. Not very sensitive of me...but what, me worry?

Gordo

I think Fr. Serge has got a point.

The swastika (from Sanskrit स्वस्तिक svastika, from su "well", and asti "being", thus "good fortune" or "well-being") is an equilateral cross with its arms bent at right angles in either left-facing (卍) or right-facing (卐) direction. The swastika is a sacred symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Odinism.[1] The Hindu version is often decorated with a dot in each quadrant.

However, in the Western world, it is most widely known and used as a symbol of Nazism (the Hakenkreuz, "hook-cross") and this political association has eclipsed its historical status as the fylfot.

It is traditionally oriented so that a main line is horizontal, though it is occasionally rotated at forty-five degrees.

I.F.

PS: I belive Ukrainians used them on Easter Eggs and discontinued doing so when the symbol was usurped by Germany in the 1930's and transformed into something completely different.

Berg...: They do NOW and have for several years. That is part of the 30-some odd religious symbols now included. There is actually an Atheist symbol, which is odd and you do see them.

But they used to only provide what they referred to as "Latin crosses." At least one of my deceased Orthodox family members received a Latin cross because that was all they used to provide. The family didn't want to ask them to change it later. The "Latin cross" was the most generic Christian Cross, favored by Catholics and most Protestants.


One of the strangest things I noticed in Arlington National Cemetery is the unfortunate abbreviation on Spanish American War graves. You guessed it: "SP. AM." When the periods wear away, it says SPAM.

Fr. Serge, I'm one of the wise guys (gals) who put "Druid" on one of those college preference cards. I went to a university that was not affiliated with any religion and I guess they were trying to plan on campus ministry needs. It seemed witty at the time. A dean told me that they received at least 50 of those per year. (I went to the closest parish, since the on-campus center was not my cup of tea.)

Dear Gordo,

What, me worry?

Fr. Serge

Exactly!

A logical answer to this would be to ask each individual when they join the military what symbol they would want if they were to die while serving.

In the meantime, give them what they want and let God be their judge.

Bill

Fr. Serge, barekmor.

Your question is not so hypothetical - the Army has relaxed its standards of enrollment with regards to those with neo-Nazi and skinhead affiliation, in an attempt to boost numbers. There is no doubt that many of these, when their time comes, will request such repulsive insignia on their headstone.