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It is a shame that there is no message icon or gremlin that cries...

Extracts from the Constantine XI memorial page of The Society of St. John Chrysostom of Ayatriada Rum Katoliki Kilise [rumkatkilise.org] website.

Dear Myles,

Thank you for the above by Constantine XI before the battle with the Turks. It is a pity that these people could not see the danger six months before. If they had, maybe the city might have been spared.

For six months the Greeks refused to step into the Church of Aghia Sophia because it was polluted by a Latin Mass. But the devil was alive and well. I do not recall the name of the monk that the people considered a saint and went to for advice. What I do know though, through one historian was that he went under one name in Italy and under another name in Constantinople.

He shocked the historian, and he had to re-check and re-check his sources, because this same monk was telling the Latins to unite with the Byzantines in Italy, and then in Constantinople he was saying the opposite. He told the Greeks that if they united with the Western Church, then the Turks would surely take the city.

For six months the Greeks were fighting with the Italians in Constantinople. The Genovese were fighting with the Venetians...and then it all ended. A little too late me thinks. They all decided to unite and pray in Aghia Sophia on the last day.

What went on the years before the taking of the city, we might never really know. What immorality and sins were being committed so that the hearts on either side were not able to achieve comprehension of the others point of view, we will never really know. What we do know is that when they met at Florence and then Ferrara, it was too late. Hearts had hardened to the point of no return.

Could we be making the same mistakes today? Could our society and it's sins be leading us down that treacherous path... and will we 'unite' only when 'fear' draws us together. It will be a little too late me thinks.

Zenovia

Yes at this rate by the 22nd Century Europe will have become Eurabia...

Dear Myles,

I thank you too for this great speech which has brought tears to my eyes for many reasons...

It is so sad that throughout history, men needed to go to war. It is so sad that love penetrated the hearts of the good people of Constantinople ONLY when they faced a common enemy. It is so sad that it was, indeed, too late.

It is so sad that the Queen city of Eastern Christendom has been taken by the Muslim Turks and that her great churches have been reduced to museums. It is so sad that Christians are apathetic and marginal throughout the world and it is so sad that for some who are not, their hearts have hardened towards their Christian brethren and their egos are in triumphalistic competition.

It is so sad that I feel with every ounce of my soul that we are, once again, in the dark hour of the above time, and that, once again, we refuse to acknowledge it-- because if we did, we would also have to acknowledge the old proverb: ' A house divided against itself cannot stand '

In Christ,
Alice

The present moment can never be too late. The words of Blessed Constantine the Martyr still ring in our ears.

As for our lost buildings - there is a pious custom in Constantinople that, wherever services are held, the deacon always prays "for this, the Holy and Great Church of Christ . . ." which reaffirms that no matter what the Turks do, they cannot prevent our souls from returning to Agia Sophia, even if they tear down the building.

So we must smile - but NOT as Sultans smile!


Incognitus

Dear Incognitus,

As usual, your wisdom and insights are appreciated.

Your sister in Christ,
Alice

Dont worry Alice within 150 years at this rate us Latins will be able to mourn with you in solidarity as the minarets are rest above St Peter's Basilica under Caliph's of Europe.

Myles where does the oration come down to us from? Certainly very moving. The last hours of the once great Roman Empire. I dont know about the Abu Boutros Mosque in Vaticanistan. However, one wonders how long Europe can keep lurching along trying to make these people from the 3rd world think and act appropriately. They have proved to be a mixed blessing, some would say a Trojan horse, or a 5th column.

ICXC
NIKA

Myles,

What would be worrisome to me if I were living where you are is that, in a recent poll, 60% of British Muslims polled said they wished to live under Shari'a but still desired to live in Britain.

Now that's scary!

Logos Teen

The source of the Basileus' speech was Leonardo of Chios, the Latin Archbishop of Lesbos, as contained in a letter addressed to Pope Nicholas V on 19 August 1453.

As for Western Europe at this present moment in time it is a foregone conclusion that whats left of Christendom herein will share fate of the Basilea. Please pray for us its the only hope we have. This I firmly believe.

Lets not be defeatist here things look bad. Things have been far worse in Europe and other places and the church bounced back. Remember we are on the winning side Christ has done it all, death has been destroyed. That does not of course mean we do nothing but keeping that in mind show them Christ.

Thank you. Well said !

-- John

I am sure Pavel that people believed that in the preceeding century before Constantinople was taken by the Turks. Indeed, Patriarch Antonius' letter to Grand Prince Vasili about commemorating the Basileus during Divine Liturgy underscores this point.

Read these snippets from the text of Patriarch Antonius\' Letter [fordham.edu] . Do they sound like the words of a man who believes that the Basilea was about to be overrun by its enemies? From Antonius' assertion that it is impossible to have a church without an Emperor would you conclude that he comprehended that God would allow Rhomania to collapse?

Yet it happened.

Beware of thinking that simply because we've survived in the past that we'll survive again. I'm sure many of the Latin Princes thought as you do. Indeed, they say a shockwave went out around Western Europe when the City of Constantine finally capitulated. The Roman Empire was an eternal Empire thats how they conceived of it, thats how they envisioned it, neither Latin nor Greek until the last day truly thought that Sancta Sophia would be delivered to the Muslims.

They were wrong.

Anyone who knows of me and my posting will know that I am an avid enthusiast of history. I have studied many epoch's and many shifting era's and indeed John it was I who was saying not too long ago to you not to worry because its happened before and we've survived stronger for it and so it shall be again. But let me tell you my friend something has changed...

I feel it my prayer, I feel it in my bones, I feel it my blood

This is not like the other times. Trust me. This is different. There is a complancy a lack of urgency that the other era's did not have. I see it clearly before my waking eyes and I beg you not to dismiss my words as pessmism. I cannot explain it to you but I can feel it, I feel that we are that time, that moment, that crisis point where judgement shall fall.

Every era in history has that key few years where just a few things can change its course and within myself I feel that for Europe this is that time. I am not posting these things because I have lost hope I am posting them because I know that if we do not respond to the promptings of the Spirit now there wont be a later to do so.

Dear Friends,

In defense of Myles, let us not forget that he actually lives across the pond. I also feel the same sense of fear deep within me, and that could be because I go there once a year as an ex-resident and not as a visitor.

In Christ,
Alice

Dear Alice - thank you!

Dear All - it is several years since I was last in Constantinople - and, alas, I have never been to Trebizond. I don't think I would have the heart to return to what is now Turkey.

But I have plenty of heart to believe that the Mohammedans are nowhere near on the verge of conquering Europe. We have been there before - Chesterton wrote an excellent essay on the several deaths of the Catholic Church, and the time (in the days of the earlier Plantagenets) when everybody who was anybody was suspected of being a secret Muslim, even as more recently everyone was suspected of being a secret Communist, and Christian men had resigned themselves to the inevitable victory of the Muslims.

Well, surprise! The Reconquista regained Spain, Sobieski hurled back the Turks from the gates of Vienna, and Don John, despite being heavily outnumbered and outgunned, won at Lepanto. The Church can and does suffer, but she cannot and does not die, as the ghosts of the Communists will inform anyone who asks them.

Blessed Emperor Charles, intercede with God for us.

Incognitus

Dear Incognitus,

Ofcourse the Church does not die, as we have the promise that the gates of hell will not prevail against her!

However, Christian nations have suffered persecutions, defeats and occupations by communists and Muslims, and according to Father Arseny, a witness to great faith in the gulags, it was the sins of the laity and clergy that brought his beloved Russia to that point. He firmly believed this.

Therefore, I think that Myles has a point in asking for prayer for the conversion of Europe. It is the audacious religious and spiritual apathy, bordering on atheism, which I have encountered in Europeans of different ethnicities and ages that gives me a great and foreboding sense of fear. The Pope often alludes to this apathy.

The very fact that the European Union ignored the Holy Father and the Ecumenical Patriarch who pleaded with them to include their spiritual patrimony of the Christian faith in the European constitution also scares me....

Ofcourse we should never stop praying for our own American collective and individual spiritual shortcomings as well.

Lord have mercy on us all!

In Christ,
Alice, a sinner

Indeed, Alice. I dont know what you guys make of the whole Malachy prophecy which Zenovia brought up elsewhere on this site but I'm thinking that the time of judgement for the city on the 7 Hills could be closer than we imagine. Not that I believe that its going to be the end of the world but it might be the end of the eternal city's existence as the Catholic capital of the world.

Alice sees it, as do I, the European man has become so much indifferent as to barely to be called an atheist and barely worthy of any other title. He just doesn't care. It is as Alice says: apathy. A complete absence of any conviction or desire for any solution which may prove strenous. Whatever will cause them the least problems (at least in the immediate) Europeans are generally glad to do.

If they imagined they could go along living their hedonic lifestyle under a Sultanate do you really think that Europe wouldn't immediately convert? Do you truly believe that a civilisation that believes in nothing but what suits me here and now would not fall for the charms of the opium houses of Old Istanbul and its harems?

Even within the Church there is such little urgency in spite of our dire predicament. Rather we have yesterday's men arguing over yesterday's solutions spending precious time arguing over 'the Spirit of Vatican II' whilst outside of their ivory towers the Church over which they are fighting crumbles rapidly. God help us some of these men are actually Bishops! Rather than opening its doors to the world the quarrels of Vatican II allowed the smoke of Satan to enter the Church (Paul VI) and further trap ourselves in introspection.

Will we continue to war amongst ourselves as Constantinople ravaged itself with civil wars even as the Turks advanced?? Even though the Church in Europe is falling apart its members take no heed of the signs of the times and continue to make war on one another. A house divided against itself...when the cresent overshadows the cross...will this house stand??

As Alice says, young and old, poor and rich, they have become victims of their own existentialism. Their lives are meaningless and without meaning behind their trials they've lost the desire to fight. We will loose this battle because we do not care enough to prepare for it. Its maddening!!

We need to get out there we need to start winning souls because right now thats exactly what Islam is doing. They're converting, they're emigrating and they're not killing themselves off by contracepting redrawing the demographics of Europe as they go. Walking around Oxford I see blonde women in hijabs. Slowly but surely the hammer is falling and yet none care to act.

Are we going to spend the next half century having arguments amongst ourselves, playing happy families at the dialogue table and getting nowhere, running further and further into our Christian ghetto whilst the Muslims slowly transform Europe? Will they meet with no opposition at all???

And some might say the secularists will resist them. Hah!?! How can a bunch of people to whom struggle has become an alien concept resist anything? How can a continent of people who have fallen into an existential neurosis fight with heart when they're convinced of the meaningless of life?

Unless we act fast the 22nd century shall see St Peter's share the fate of Hagia Sophia. God has been warning us for over 100 years that this would happen why should we be surprised? Everyone remember Leo XIII's vision after which he penned the prayer to St Michael the Archangel? Or the prophecies of Sts Pius X and Don Bosco? Not to mention the myriad of Marian apparations from La Salette to Knock, Fatima and elsewhere. God has given us graces, God has given us time, what have we done with it?

*shakes head*

Besides a miracle I can see no future for Christianity in Europe. Our hour has come. May God have mercy on our souls.

Sancte Petrus, Ora Pro Nobis

Myles certainly has a valid point and prayers for the conversion of Europe are needed - and have been repeatedly called for by the incumbent Pope and his predecessor. My only point is that on this one, we must pray with real hope. As a wise elder once said: "if you go to Church to pray for rain, bring an umbrella!"

Incognitus

Thank you for that wise admonition Incognitus...our prayers should not be shallow, but said with real faith.

In Christ our Lord,
Alice

Dear Myles you said:

"but I'm thinking that the time of judgement for the city on the 7 Hills could be closer than we imagine. Not that I believe that its going to be the end of the world but it might be the end of the eternal city's existence as the Catholic capital of the world."

I say:

Please don't say that. I don't know of any horror greater than something happening to the Vatican. But here's Pope John Paul II's prophecy:

"POPE, SATAN WILL BE VANQUISHED BUT THE FIGHT IS LONG AND HARD

AGI) - Vatican City, 12 Jan - The Pope commented today on the Apocalypse before the 7,000 people attending the General Papal Audience today in the Nervi Hall, indicating that the fight between good and evil, personified by Satan, is a very hard one, as shown by the manifold violence and injustice in the world today, however the outcome is certain, evil will be vanquished.

Pope John Paul II explained, "God and the Lamb, Christ, surrounded by the 'Council of the Crown', are judging human history in good and evil, but showing us however the ultimate end in salvation and glory. The songs which are found in the Apocalypse and which serve to illustrate the issue of divine glory which regulates the flux, often disconcerting, of the tide of human events". Of great significance is the first part of the hymn intoned by the 24 ancients who seem to incarnate the chosen people in their two historic stages, the twelve tribes of Israel and the twelve apostles of the Church.

The Pope continued, Satan, the original adversary, who accused our brothers in the heavenly court, has now been cast down from heaven and therefore no longer has great power. He knows he has not much time left because history is about to see a radical turning point in freedom from evil and therefore he is reacting full of great fury.

And then the resurrected Christ will rise up, whose blood is the principle of salvation and who received from the Father royal power over the entire universe, in Him are centred salvation, strength and the kingdom of our God. In his victory are associated the Christian martyrs who chose the path of the cross, not yielding to evil and it virulence, but delivering themselves to the Father and uniting themselves to the death of Christ by means of a testimony of donation and courage which brought them to give up life in order to die".

He concluded, "the words of the Apocalypse regarding those who have vanquished Satan and evil through the blood of the Lamb, echo also in the splendid prayer attributed to the Christian martyr Simeon, from Seleucia-Ctesifonte in Persia, 'I will receive life without pain, worry, anguish, persecutor, persecuted, oppressor, oppressed, tyrant or victim, there I will see no threat of king, or terror of prefects, no-one will quote me in court or terrorise me and no-one will drag me or scare me".

Zenovia

Dont worry I have not lost hope. Indeed, if I had I wouldn't even be posting these things rather I'd be preparing to move to Rome so that I could see in my final days under the shadow of St John Lateran.

I believe there is still time just very, very little of it...I hold on to hope like a shimmering flicker of light that dances before my eyes amidst an encroaching darkness. Just a little while longer and my little flame shall be completely burnt out. I only hope before that time the brides come with oil in the lamps to keep the night from engulfing us. Right now the only thing I can see apart from my little candle is the bold Crescent moon looming over the horizon and its scares me.

Well said, Incognitus !!! Well said too, Zenovia !

Myles, my friend, I agree that the situation looks dire. And, you have better perspective there because you live on that side of the pond.

All I can add is my perspective on things over here and how they are somewhat similar. Here in America, a supposedly Christian country, we kill about a million children every year through abortion; we are saturated with lust in the popular culture to the point of pathology, and we face a growing mindset that is materialistic. Anger, lust greed: the three doorways to hell. And, they seem to be growing in popularity. Then add in the priest pedophile scandal, declining numbers of vocations (to religious life and to married life), parishes being closed, and a strange kind of apathy that cares more about TV programs than the serious issues of the day and, well, it can become downright depressing. It can get even worse for Eastern Catholics, who seem to be in a demographic free-fall. Etc.

Now, I'm not suggesting that these problems be ignored. But, I have found (for myself) that the only answer that gets me out of bed in the morning without depression is hope and trust in Jesus. I know you have hope too in Him, otherwise you wouldn't be so concerned. But as for divining the future, I leave that up to the Divine. It will somehow work out, because He will make it work out. He did so at the Cross with the Empty Tomb, and He has been doing so ever since.

And, personally, I tend to find Pope Benedict's idea on this topic to be persuasive. There is a new springtime to the Church, although the Church may be smaller than before, because the Church will be composed of those who are truly committed to and in love with Jesus Christ and His Church.

Put another way, I used to get depressed sometimes when I went to Divine Liturgy because the worshippers were so few and old. But then, I noticed the enormous faith and love and joy of the people who actually showed up. They believe; and they love Jesus Christ and the Byzantine Catholic Church; and they are keeping their parish alive by that faith and love and joy. From their example, I learned to worry less and to know that Jesus isn't going to let the Church die out or fail, no matter what ill choices the world around us may make. And, as a result, my little parish has in fact grown: it has grown by one (me) because of their witness. And so other parishes will likewise grow. People find Christ in the people of Christ: and Christ is enough, and more than enough, to stay and to grow in the Gospel.

What I�m referring to is the �good infection� that C.S. Lewis wrote about in �Mere Christianity.� We �catch� Jesus and His grace from one another, one person at a time. The Church may be less numerous, but it will be more intensely captivated by Jesus and His Grace -- and thus better able to share Him with others.

None of this diminishes the realities you pointed out. Indeed, there may well be very difficult times in the future for our Church (and for our civilization), based upon the choices that are currently being made in the world. But, what I�m talking about --faith and love and hope in Jesus-- makes all of this bearable and hope-filled. And He will draw good out of all of this.

And here is the amazing part: He will use us --us! sinners!-- as His some of His main instruments to do so. We pray for the conversion of Europe, for the renewal of the Church, for the unity of the Church, for the repentance of America, etc. Ok; He will grant these things -- through us. We are the lamp on a lamp-post, the salt of the earth, the leaven in the dough, etc. It will be Christ who does the redeeming, but He will do so in large part through us, His Church, His Body. That not only boggles my mind and humbles me; it also makes me rather excited and enthusiastic. :-)

That's just my two cents' worth of thinking, my friend. I hope it helps (and I apologize if I gave offense).

-- John

Dear John,

That was a beautiful and heartfelt post, and it rang so true.

Thank you for it.

God bless you.

In Christ,
Alice

Indeed, John you did not cause any offence. There is much wisdom in your words. I shall heed them in good faith. God Bless.