www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Chaldeans and Assyrians to lose beards

Yep, you have heard it correct. French Assyrians and Catholics are facing a possible law which will see beards being banished from the scene. Some of you may know that in Europe (i.e. the EU), there has been an ongoing disagreement over religious symbols and whether they should be allowed in public. Most prominently this was about the different Muslims veils but has expanded into other religions e.g. no turbans for Sikhs - just hairnets and large crosses around the chest are a no-no. What is the general opinion of the forum members on this? Will it mean that monks and nuns of our Churches will end up dressed in Marks & Spencer's clothes?


Anton

Importantly, can we imagine our hierarchs without beards?

Anton,

Do you have a citation for this? Since beards are worn in a great many instances which have no relationship to religion, I find it somewhat unlikely that they are about to be legislated into non-existence by the EU. This strikes me as one of those panic modes into which people get when they carry any genuine report to its most extreme possible conclusion.

And, for that matter, why would it only have application to Chaldeans and Assyrians? What about EOs and ECs; or, for that matter, Sikhs?

Many years,

Neil

As worrying as this REAL threat is, let's remember that we're talking about the school environment at the moment and that this is the proposal of one person, not the French government.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

Oh as far as I have seen - it's true enough - well the bits about beards etc etc . I spotted it in that most illustrious journal "The Herald" this morning - I'll see if I can persuade him-who-thinks-he-is-boss to scan it for me [ then e-mail it to me;) ] and see if I can post it. France is really getting twitchy about this.

Hmm - and I go there after Easter - my neck cross and medal are NOT coming off - and they are visible.

Anhelyna

Here you are Neil - thanks to him who has the scanner

Beard call has France hot under the collar
JOCELYN GECKER
PARIS

FRANCE'S fight to keep religion out of schools has entered new- and some say absurd -territory.
Teachers and some religious leaders are furious over a government minister's call to ban beards and bandannas from classrooms along with Islamic headscarves, Jewish skullcaps and Christian crosses.
Muslim leaders were divided, with some denouncing the disciplining of facial hair as "total delirium." Others said that weekend street protests against the planned law had rattled the government.
The latest twist in France's controversial plan to ban religious symbols from classrooms came when Luc Ferry, the education minister, said that the planned ban on religious symbols could also cover facial hair and bandannas, sometimes worn as an alternative to the traditional Muslim headscarf.
Ferry made the comments during a parliamentary debate, where lawmakers questioned whether the bill was tough enough. They asked if the ban should cover"visible"religious symbols, rather than "conspicuous" symbols, as the draft law states.
Ferry explained that the bill's existing wording would allow for broader interpretation.
And so, "if a beard is transformed into a religious sign it will fall under the law," Ferry said. Likewise, a bandanna "will be banned, if young girls present it as a religious sign."
This came as a shock to many in France, particularly to teachers who will be at the front line of policing the new law, expected to be in place for the new school year in September. Lawmakers begin debating the bill Feb. 3.
"Beards? Bandannas'?" asked Daniel Robin, national secretary of France's largest high school teachers union, SNES. "What next?"
"This exercise has become absurd. Totally absurd," he said. The Education Ministry did not respond to calls asking for clarification of Ferry's remarks and he declined to speak to reporters as left a meeting.

The Herald 22 January 2004

This truly is madness. I wonder what Rumpole would say?

Dan L

It was also reported in "The Times", "The Daily Telegraph", "The Observer" and "The Guardian" - all four major broadsheets in the UK. Also, Germany is facing a similar problem. As to why only Assyrians or Chaldeans are mentioned, I have no idea...

Anton

Dear Anton,

Don't get me wrong...because I adore Europe because of its history, culture, architecture, art, churches, people, and Christian roots, and generally because it's the 'old world' ...

I honestly love it, and have lived there for a while....BUT, my feelings about all this hoopla against 'religious' symbols is, 'HAS EUROPE GONE ABSOLUTELY MAD??!!??'

In Christ,
Alice

M'dear....you ain't the only one....

OY Anton - please change that to all four major broadsheets inEngland. :p

Still trying to get my paws on the good papers - Scotsman P&J etc

Anhelyna

Sorry......

But then I am Bulgarian so all this rivalry is just fun to watch. *devilish grin*

It occurs to my twisted mind that the appropriate response would be for all the folks in one school (or more, if it could be arranged) to attend classes with brown paper grocery bags over their heads (with eyeholes, of course).

Paper bags are not religious in the least, and they would conceal "a multitude of sins."

Oh- the final step would be of course to alert the media....


Wickedly Demented Cheers,


Sharon

My fear, about why "only Assyrians & Chaldeans" are mentioned, is that it reveals the truth about this concern. This is not so much about religious symbolism (although the French are notoriously anti-clerical and anti-religion), but about racial bigotry. Are not these groups 'arabic' and non-European in their appearance, hence the reason they were included in this context?

When we abandon the Gospel, and the Christian attitude toward our fellow man which is commanded there, ...is sin, hatred and bigotry far behind? Such attitudes were not completely lost in Europe when nazism was defeated.

Slava Isusu Christu!

Sharon,

My own passive-aggressive mind thought much the same! :-P

At the risk of raising a hairy question, since when does a beard indicate the adherence of the wearer to any religion? Granted that some religions encourage beards more than others do, one can still easily find clean-shaven rabbis and bearded Anglican clergy, and so forth. Chesterton ran across an article written by a Protestant which included the assertion that "among the Russian Uniates Rome tolerates bizarre heresies, married and even bearded clergy". As Chesterton commented, what can be done? How does one respond to somebody who thinks that a wife is more important than one's faith, and that hair is more important than one's wife? I wonder if this proposed ban on beards will apply to the "bearded lady" who used to feature in circuses. Incognitus