www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Excerpt from first (and only one so far?) Russian Catholic sobor

Dear Brendan,

You mean he has an "axios" to grind?

And there are people on this forum with an agenda?

I am always the last to find out these things. . .


You are the third person today warning me or asking me to be nice. I guess it's not my day or something . . .

Alex

[ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

Bless me a sinner, Reader Sergius!

Dvornik writes from within a particular Catholic perspective that tends to "debunk" more than just the connection of St Andrew to Constantinople.

RC's today will debunk the "myth" of the Presentation of Our Lady in the Temple and jettison other things.

Then again, Protestants do the same thing to them.

Then along come the militant atheists . . .

I think our liturgical tradition is clear and that St Andrew is the Apostle of Constantinople and of Kyiv.

According to the Declaration of Ardbroath in Scotland, the Scots originally come from Scythia and so brought their patron saint, the Apostle Andrew and his cult with them as well.

Don't you just love those Celts?

Alex

Oh I do Alex - I definitly do - what with my Welsh Grandfather , my Scots Grandmother [ which made my Mother half and half !] and of course my Heinz type husband[ an armful of Portugese blood to spoil things !] - oh I love the Celts .. However spelling lesson coming up

ARBROATH please write out 50 times and use correctly in 3 different sentences.

Ach -I forgive you. With your background - what could I expect

Dear Angela,

Forgive me - you must be a teacher of the Queen's English!

I was thinking of what was said on another thread and I confused Arbroath with Ardvark . . .

My mother is from Wallachia and I understand this is also a Celtic bastion. They also built the Crimean city of Sebastopol.

Any place name with "Wal" (for "wild") in front of it or part of it is of Celtic provenance, such as Walloons, Walnuts, Wales, Cornwall etc.

And, of course, Happy Mary, Queen of Scots' Day!

There is a procession in London, England today in her honour and flowers are placed at the ruins of the castle where she was martyred.

There is a canonization process and a society in her honour (I'm a member!).

They destroyed the castle simply because they were afraid it would turn into a shrine and pilgrimage centre to her.

As she said on the morning of her martyrdom, "I hurry to give my life for the Holy Catholic faith!"

I saw her beautiful, bejewelled Rosary on display at the Castle of Arundel as she bequeathed it to the Dukes of Norfolk, Earls of Arundel.

Catholics have for years prayed at her tomb in Westminster and miracles are reported.

Alex

Alex writes: "Again, comparing the language used at this Synod with current Catholic-Orthodox situation is like comparing apples to oranges.

RC proselytism in Russia is something that is a negation of RC ecumenical theology, not an affirmation of it. In Ukraine, we had Russian Orthodox proselytism too and this memory is still painful to a number of Ukrainian Catholics.

But I digress . . .

Patriarch Alexis II does have a point (I don't hate him, God forbid). Even if he had a KGB designation, I am willing to overlook that and say that these letters, in his case, mean "Kindly, Good Batiushka!"

But when he refuses to acknowledge the rights of the Ukrainian Catholic Church to exist, which he seems to be doing whenever he places this as a "condition" for a papal visit, he is the one sounding like a "wildcat."

Patriarch Lubomyr has asked the MP to forward him even one concrete situation such as the MP has described to the Pope so that he can look into it. The MP has yet to do so. And why not?

The ultramontane you mentioned is also of the ilk of people I too have mentioned on this Forum - and you, if I remember correctly, were among the first to call my story into question! I know there are RC missionaries in Russia actively converting the Orthodox and you can ask my father-in-law Nestor about them - he was in there mission churches and argued with them (he's 260 pounds and his fist can pack an awful punch!).

10)You are right, but at this time the RC church was so widespread that it had precisely this appeal of "Universality" for those of the Russian aristocracy and intelligentsia who, in their own words, sought to relate to the world, as in France and elsewhere. This was also manifested in the attitude of Peter the Great and his relationship with the West, his flirtation with Latin and with the Jesuits.

But, again, today our experience of the world is different, even though Pope John Paul II does have an undeniable international appeal that no Church or group anywhere comes even close to imitating. For me, being raised in an ethnic family, Pope John Paul has taught me to be proud of my religious and cultural heritage, without being inwardly focused on it as a result, but to be open to the world with its beauty and pain and cultural richness.

So saith I . . .

Alex"

Wow. In a nutshell, you describe the historical reality and the implications of the history. My hat is off to you. May the Lord bless the Kievan Church and her long-suffering, devoted and implacably devoted children.

Blessings!

Dear Dr. John,

And you, Sir, have taught me the important lesson of fighting to rise above one's experience of suffering in faith and prayer while smiling even when it hurts to do so!

I bow back to you . . .

Alex