Well, they say that the Great Fast is a time of penance. I just did mine in the 2 hour 12 minute left-wing, anti-religious right, homophobic-phobic, cultural elite tirade known as V for Vendetta.
V should also stand for "vindication of terrorism", since that ultimately is its underlying purpose...all under the sleak guise of Hollywood high end production and a mask.
If you are even the least bit inclined to watch this movie, take my recommendation and aVoid it. Unless you want to watch religious Values mocked and spun through the celluloid cycle. You'll only end up coming out dirty from that wash.
I saw it last Saturday night. It was a complete propaganda piece. The worst part was portraying terrorism in a positive light. The only somewhat noble characters in the movie were the inspector and his deputy. I wouldn't recommend it either.
I did see The Hills Have Eyes last Sunday night because a friend wanted to see it. I borderline wanted to commit suicide it was so depressing and awful; we left the movie with 30 minutes to go because it was so horrific!
I shouldn't have gone in the first place. It was pure shock value!
Anyway, I'm interested in seeing V for Vendetta and will contribute my own thoughts after I do.
I thought the Great Fast was a time to become more holy not more jaded. It seems curious that you all would countenance seeing movies like this at all but especially during the Great Fast. Help me understand. If I'm missing something for my own Theosis I want to know about it.
Do you plan these adventures so you will have something to confess? Is that sort of like "sinning so grace may abound". I thought we weren't supposed to do that.
BTW If you all know that these movies are depressing and disingenuous in the first place why do you waste the Lord's money on them? It would seem that at least you'd wait a couple of weeks until they come out on DVD and rent them thus saving money that could be used for Godly purposes.
You are correct. It is at times better to wait until the DVD comes out. But there is nothing that pecludes us from watching movies during the Great Fast. Each person has there own discipline. Your suggestion is a worthy one. I am not a monastic, though. I had my reasons for going with a colleague of mine. Let's just leave it at that.
But theosis is not always threatened by watching moves, even violent ones (to a point). Flannery O'Connor used violence in her short stories to make vivid spiritual points. Violence can even be virtuous. (The Old Testament is full of examples.) In the case of this movie, which I reviewed to warn others to stay away, violence has a purpose, but it is an evil means to a mixed end. I had no idea that it would turn out that way.
I'm going to go see V For Vendetta tonight because, as much as I value the opinions of others, I'm not going to let their reviews plot out the course of my own decision to see the movie (duh).
Anyway, what makes you think that if I go see this movie I'll be sinning? Perhaps I want to see an insightful movie and reflect it onto my life and whether or not I'm acting as a "terrorist" to myself or to others.
Or maybe it'll just be a total buzzkill! But I'd like to find out. And plus I can't go downtown tonight because I have a test so I'm in need of another diversion and the movies seem like a good one to me!
Well, I liked it a lot. My friend and I couldn't decide whether it was genius or just totally corny. Probably a little bit of both!
For those who can't handle the sight of blood...rest assured, it wasn't real.
No, but seriously, if you can't handle violence don't go see it.
Indeed, the persuasions of the film were not (and were not attempted to be) hidden. Striking parallels to Abu Ghraib, orange jumpsuits and black hoodies and all, and some other facets of modern-day American life.
I can see how one could think this movie implicitly supports what we know to be sins, such as homosexual relationships, but I got something different entirely from the movie. What it appeared to me to support is free speech, the free exchange of ideas, and other basic inalienable rights. And we all know that totalitarianism and the militant attempt at extermination of the voicing of opposing viewpoints is terribly anti-Christian.
Therefore, I believe that one can take away a Christian meaning from this film (the immorality of stealing one's right to free speech and belief), or one could take away another view.
First, any movie that has William Hurt as a supporting actor has a lot going for it. He has been one of my favorite actors for the past 25 years.
Second, a friend told me the special effects are state-of-the-art. He especially raved about the mock explosions.
Third, he said the soundtrack is great, especially Cry Me a River, and the Rolling Stones' Street Fighting Man. Is it true that Cry Me a River sounds like a 1930's classic?
Fourth, he said the plot bites.
In other words, great acting, great special effects, great soundtrack, but who in the world directed this thing?
I'd like to add that on average, the Greeks eat 23.8 kg cheese per year while the French consume 23.7 kg. Don't believe stereotypes about french eating the most cheese.. I don't watch many R rated films myself. This holds no more interest for me than did "the passion".
I have to agree with Logos Teen. I enjoyed the movie and thought it presented a lot to ponder.
My take on the so called "terrorist" aspect of the movie is that while superfically V appears to be a terrorist, he does not follow through with the terrorists methods. Modern terrorism cares nothing for justice (except Islamic justice). It is only concerned to destroy what doesnt conform to it and that includes the lives of human beings who have never done anything to offend it. In other words, terrorists more often look for ways to kill people en mass than not. V did not operate this way. What he did was more akin to what the American patriots did in the events leading up to the revolutionary war. In fact there were oblique references to this in the movie. He does indeed kill people, but it is people who have suppressed the truth and imposed a tyranical regime on the people. Also, he explains at length that he blows up the old Bailey and parliament for idiological reasons that he believes will sink into the subconsciousness of the people and rally them to demand "liberty and justice for all" so to speak.
Granted there was a pro homosexual agenda in the movie, and that cannot be justified. But to be charitable, remember that to many today the homosexual is presented as the example of freedom of speech being suppressed. I dont agree with this and I hope no one accuses me of doing so, let alone justifying it. I simply make the point that for many it is so.
All in all I intend to see the movie a second time to see what I missed the first time around.
I thought the Great Fast was a time to become more holy not more jaded. It seems curious that you all would countenance seeing movies like this at all but especially during the Great Fast. Help me understand. If I'm missing something for my own Theosis I want to know about it.
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Yes, Dan, we should all aspire to be as holy as you.
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Do as you wish. But as I asked before help me understand how seeing this movie will move one toward holiness. If it will I may wish to see it also.
Just my two cents worth, but I think Dan is correct. We should all be more careful about what we put in our minds, i.e. movies, books, music, internet, etc. Once the junk is allowed in there, it's in there to stay.
1 Peter 4:11 Whoever preaches, let it be with the words of God; whoever serves, let it be with the strength that God supplies, so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ , to whom belong glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Originally posted by Pani Rose: 1 Peter 4:11 Whoever preaches, let it be with the words of God; whoever serves, let it be with the strength that God supplies, [b]so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ , to whom belong glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Does V gloify God in this Lenten season? [/b]
My vote is "no".
Despite Logos-Teen's protestations to the contrary, the movie is clearly intended to paint religious people and leaders and anti-homosexual, persecuting a perfectly viable and beautiful lifestyle choice. Any religious figure in this film is portayed as a fanatic. The movie has a clear message, which should offend anyone with religious sensibilities. I was under the impression that it woud be more like 1984, which, like Nathan, is one of my favorite books. The book is intended to be a tirade against intolerance. Since it originates within a comic book, there is no room for a "middle view"...represented by those of us who love the sinner but hate the sin. You either want to accept and support the lifestyle or put black sacks on the heads of homosexuals and cause them to disappear in the middle of the night.
So no - its underlying message is precisely what the Great Fast is not about.
My only issue with Dan's comments was his (perhaps misunderstood on my part) demand that we forgoe movies altogether as part of a lenten discipline. My hope in sharing my initial review was to warn others to avoid this particular one, because I saw how clearly this film's message was contrary to the spirit of what we hold to as Christians, so in the interest of the fast, I would agree that it should be avoided.
I'm afraid that's about all the "review" I have in me, the post before your own, that is.
I guess the soundtrack was good enough.
I thought the plot was good, but I did think the directing left something to be desired. Those are two different things, of course.
And, as opposed to Gordo, whose views I respect, I believe the message of this film was a perfectly Christian one, if viewed in the right light.
Freedom of expression and speech should not be hated by Christians. Those sins that arise from people's exercising these God-given rights are deplorable, of course. Duh! We all know this, so let's move past the idea that supporting freedom of speech is supporting every kind of sin this side of Heaven. And if that is indeed what is being suggested, I'm shocked at the lack of thought that has gone into formulating such an opinion!
This could just as easily have been a movie about a totalitarian anti-Christian government, where dissenters such as those who belief in a right to life, the dignity of the human person, and the reality of sin are killed off, shut up, or cast out.
For those who are duped into thinking that movie de facto supports what we know to be wrong - well that to me is either intellectually dishonest or intellectually shallow.
Knowing Gordo personally I'm rather surprise that he interpreted my comments in the way he did. For that matter I'm rather shocked that the canard of "free speech" means "holiness" is even offered here by anyone. I have no intention of seeing movies like the one Gordo described, at least not having been forewarned. Then I read praises for the movie as if going to a movie such as the one described will somehow make our theosis.
Don't try to make such a case here. It won't wash. Supporting a vulgar movie that attacks Christians is not anything that should be done by a Christian.
If you can do it...don't brag about it. Just do it.
My son is talking about going to see it too. I am telling him the same thing, but only so much I can say.
God is good and he lets us do as we desire. As I have experienced myself, things of this nature leave an imprint on your mind that is sometimes very hard to shake. The battle for the mind to turn ever more to our Creator is sidetracked when we allow messages such as this to penetrate our thought.
I prefer to turn my mind to the Our Father than vengence, but that is just me
I don't know what the spat between Spundus and Logos Teen has to do with watching VILE movies but I wish to thank Rose2 and Pani Rose for their understanding of the issue at hand. I repeat, I don't see how watching such movies as the ones described in this thread helps us move toward God but I like cheap thrills like anyone else and if it makes me more holy then tell us how.
Well, back in the olden days when I was "Atheist Gal", I saw a REALLY vile movie called "Dogma". You may remember it as there was quite a bit of an outcry against it by Christians. So naturally, being an atheist and opposed to everything good and decent :rolleyes: , I immediately got my boyfriend at the time to take me to see it.
Long story short: at the movie's closing scene, I turned to my then-boyfriend and exclaimed, "Hey - um - wanna go to Mass with me tomorrow?"
Well, no, he didn't! And I didn't go then - it took a few more years. But I did go back, and fondly credit that vile, blasphemous movie "Dogma" for planting a little seed of doubt in my atheism.
So it might not make you holy, but who knows how God might use it for someone else?
And just a general comment about movies - if you really don't want people to see a movie, the worst thing you can do is publicly protest against it - trust me, I'm livin' proof!
Please clear out your PM box so you can act childishly in private.
If you were looking to launch a personal attack on me you should've done it through PM in the first place. Thank goodness no one has agreed to play your petty little game. Let's leave it at that and contact me privately when you can.
Did your parents teach you nothing of manners whatever? My gosh!
Logos Teen
P.S. Dan, you are right. SPDundas' problems with me seem to have little to do with the subject of this thread, which I why I'm requesting SP contact me through PM.
Originally posted by Alice: I am not the Moderator here, but this thread is really disappointing....there have been more than a few sarcastic posts here.
Come on guys....I miss meat too, but let's not devour each other!
Love in Christ, Alice
Alice,
Only a couple of post actually degenerated. Nevertheless, I'd be delighted if someone would tell me why watching such movies would make me more holy. Some seem eager to watch such crap. Well, tell us how it helped you. Theist Gal told us how it seems to have been instrumental in her conversion. But I'd like to know how it helps a Christian become holy.
I saw this movie last weekend with my boyfriend. While it appealed to my senses there were some things I wasn't too fond of. I didn't like how they blamed America for everything(a political jab?). I also thought it was cruel of V to use Evey(torture) to do what he wanted. Why did he have to use violence? The government was overbearing and oppressing and those people were stupid not to want freedom from that. The government reminded me of Nazi Germany.
Originally posted by Criostoir McAvoy: I'd like to add that on average, the Greeks eat 23.8 kg cheese per year while the French consume 23.7 kg. Don't believe stereotypes about french eating the most cheese..
Originally posted by carson daniel lauffer: Theist Gal told us how it seems to have been instrumental in her conversion. But I'd like to know how it helps a Christian become holy.
CDL
Just wanted to clarify that the "it" in my previous message was not this particular movie but another movie which Christians have also protested against.
It's not a big deal - and I'm only singling out your post as an example, CDL, nothing personal - but since tempers do seem to flair easily around here lately, perhaps we all just need to slow down a little and pay closer attention to what other people are saying, and think about what their reasons might be, before hitting that "add reply" button.
Also - getting back to the V for Vendetta movie - in case anyone's interested, the US Bishops website has posted its review, with some good parental cautions & info:
"Freedom of expression and speech should not be hated by Christians. Those sins that arise from people's exercising these God-given rights are deplorable, of course. Duh! We all know this, so let's move past the idea that supporting freedom of speech is supporting every kind of sin this side of Heaven."
I say:
Remember, freedom of speech is what the pornographers insist on. Also, we tend to adapt to the cultural modes around us. In that sense, the Church does have a right to make it's voice heard. Besides, must Christians have no other alternative than to home school their children? I think that's quite unfair.
Dear Theist Gal you said:
"And just a general comment about movies - if you really don't want people to see a movie, the worst thing you can do is publicly protest against it - trust me, I'm livin' proof!"
I say:
Hey I'm old enough to remember when movies were banned in Boston. They were always the ones we went to see.
I'd like to add that on average, the Greeks eat 23.8 kg cheese per year while the French consume 23.7 kg. Don't believe stereotypes about french eating the most cheese..
I say:
I'm quite surprised at those figures. I heard that the French ate something like double the amount of cheese that the rest of Europe consumes, and the Greeks almost doubled the French. But then again, that was before the Greeks began dieting.
That seems to be what you're implying, so please, make it clear to the rest of us.
The problem in our culture is not freedom of speech. The problem is that we have served as poor witnesses and failed to convert this culture to Christian ideals. We can't blame that on free speech.
Forgive me, but to deny freedom of speech comes off as both un-American and fascist.
For all your emphasis on patriotism, your seeming denial of this right makes you look pretty much like a total hypocrite. ??? I just don't understand your logic at all.
I don't understand your comment expressing your concern about "tempers" as it relates to my post. What I'm trying to understand from those who defend the viewing of these movies is what is the value in them? So far all people have claimed is that it is their right in this country to watch whatever they wish. That's nice but what does that assertion have to do with this thread? Gordo recommends that we not watch this vile movie. I trust his judgment since I know he is seeking holiness in his life. I notice no such interest in defending this movie. If this kind of entertainment does not produce holiness why would a Christian waste the Lord's money on it? Please, help me out here. No anger. No temper trantrum. What is it about this movie that produces holiness? If it does not produce holiness why are you telling us that you watched it? Are you trying to distract us from holy living?
Originally posted by Teen Of The Incarnate Logos: Zenovia,
So do you not agree with freedom of speech?
That seems to be what you're implying, so please, make it clear to the rest of us.
The problem in our culture is not freedom of speech. The problem is that we have served as poor witnesses and failed to convert this culture to Christian ideals. We can't blame that on free speech.
Forgive me, but to deny freedom of speech comes off as both un-American and fascist.
For all your emphasis on patriotism, your seeming denial of this right makes you look pretty much like a total hypocrite. ??? I just don't understand your logic at all.
Logos Teen
Dear Teen,
I think that the point Zenovia was making was how the 'freedom of speech' policy can be bastardized and twisted when pornography, a known evil that dehumanizes women and children is protected under that aegis of freedom. I fail to see how that makes her a 'hypocrite'...
I know how passionate university students are about their world views which are just being formed, but as a moderator of this board (though not this particular forum--though I have alerted its moderator to the general tone this thread has taken), I must remind you to take a deep breath before you write to someone and to try to use charitable and respectful words in your arguments.
Everyone is a little testy because of Lent and the stress of life coupled with fasting, and you may even be more so because of recent tests and grades, *but* that is never an excuse for being disrespectful.
Actually I do believe in freedom of speech, but I also believe that freedom of speech can never really exist because of social pressure. Now that social pressure can go one way or another. In other words, what might be acceptable speech within a certain society at a certain time, is not acceptable within a different society at a different time.
It seems the 'pendulum' has swung too far to the left, and it has to swing back a little...but that is difficult when our college professors are chosen because of their 'liberal' views by many universities. Talk about influencing the youth.
Oh well, I was told to apologize to you for agreeing with Spdundas...so I guess I have to even though I was exercising my freedom of speech.
You know I really can't forget your sarcasm towards me in a thread with Bob Rossi. You tended to mimic his sarcasm....but I forgive you.
Okay now! Forgive me for agreeing with Spdundas even though we seem to hold the same views on certain things...and for that I do love him. At least this time. You know it's all politics. You dislike my conservatism and I your liberalism.
To clarify what I mean about freedom of speech, I don't dare mention the name of one of the men that I admire the most in this world, and that has helped me the most in my spiritual growth. I can't mention his name, because he has been so calumnized and slandered, that if I were to refer to him, everything I say would thus be misinterpreted because of preformed opinions and it would automatically discredit me.
Another example: Aren't there groups that we dare not say anything about because it would be politically incorrect?
I apologize as well and hope you can forgive me during this fasting time.
I do know what you mean about social pressure as regards to freedom of speech. I believe certain groups of people have "hijacked" the Holocaust, as if it only happened to them. We all know that that the Holocaust sought to destroy more than one group of people. More basically, it sought to destroy everyone but only one group of people (Aryans!).
Now, wouldn't I probably be thrown in jail were I to say that to Abe Foxman or someone?
I don't know why you paint me as a liberal. I totally pro-life. Is that liberal?
At the same time, I am anti-war (unless it's "Just," and that can get pretty tricky), anti-death penalty unless absolutely necessary, am for preserving our environment, am for higher taxation for the wealthier, for heavy estate taxes, etc.
These might be classified as "liberal" by some, but I just think it's following what my Church teaches and what my conscience believes. Now, at the same time, I would imagine that you, being an Orthodox Christian, would also be against unnecessary war, unnecessary capital punishment, the destruction of God's green earth, etc. The difference is we define these things differently, but we agree at the very heart of it. Now, I'll admit estate taxes and taxing the wealthy are different, but let me just say that my family is, by no means at all, paupers in any sense of the word and we still believe in heavier taxation for the wealthy.
It's so easy to be for that when you're poor or against that when you're more affluent, but I believe it takes true conviction to break the mold to fight for something that, instead of helping you individually, would help the population at large. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm saying that I strive not to be just a product of my surroundings or upbringing or indoctrination, but that I do really try to look at the issues in light of my Faith and practice accordingly.
And by the way, I go to an SEC university with the largest College Republican contingent of any university in the nation. I live in the Deep South. I define myself as a pro-life Democrat whilst most of my peers define themselves as pro-choice Republicans! You can't break the mold any more than that!
Originally posted by carson daniel lauffer: Are you trying to distract us from holy living?
CDL
Oddly enough, Dan, that was what I was about to ask you. While being disgusted with the plot summaries and reviews I have seen concerning Vendetta, I have to admit that I was FAR more disgusted with your comments, to the point of thanking God that yours is not the only voice that stands for Byzantine Catholics on the internet.
Congratulations, Dan...it takes a lot to sicken me, but you managed!
I imagine that the Taliban thought that they were doing the right thing for their God when they destroyed centuries old works of art, and killed people for speaking freely. While certainly not attempting to compare the film in question to anything that vaguely resembles "art", I AM comparing your attitude to that of the Taliban...condemning everyone who dares to view anything you feel should not be viewed.
Motes and beams, here, is what I am thinking, Dan. You truly have sickened me.
Gaudior, posting this publicly in hopes that it makes you THINK.
I've received a number of posts related to this thread.
PLEASE CHILL!
I think the words are the Apostle are relevant:
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"Everything is lawful," but not everything is beneficial."Everything is lawful," but not everything builds up.No one should seek his own advantage, but that of his neighbor. 1 Cor. 10:23 (emphasis added)
For clarification. I have offered no condemnation of anyone in this thread nor do I feel any for those who defend watching this movie. I am shocked at Gaudior's unconscienable attack upon me and clearly do not understand from whence it comes. I forgive his rudeness toward me and he will receive it more quickly than he asks for it.
All I wish to know is what I've been asking all along. The same question I will ask my confessor the next time I see him, "How is watching this kind of movie going to move a person toward their theosis?" That is the kind of question I've been taught to ask about everything I do. I have been taught that this is simply what we are supposed to do. If that question condemns you then go talk to your confessor. No laws, secular or religious, govern the watching of these movies by anyone. No laws block their production. But I want to be like Jesus. How will this movie help me become like Jesus? Doesn't anyone have an answer?
[irony]Perhaps you should ask your confessor whether it is right for you to go about telling OTHERS they are doing things wrong, or things that do not lead to theosis.[/irony] (hey, you asked!)
Gaudior, who reminds you that theosis is about yourself. "I thank you, God, that I am not like that poster who saw that movie! Thank you for letting me move towards theosis by insulting the faith of anyone who did see it."
***My apologies to the Forum, but this behaviour has irritated me to no end...I shall now subside into silence***
I have never said that it is a sin for Gaudior or anyone else to watch whatever movie they wished or even to insult someone on the forum if they so wish. I have asked for a clarification as to precisely how this kind of movie might help me in my theosis.
First let me clarify that I have not seen this movie, nor had I even heard about it until now.
As an answer to your challenging question, I would say that this movie, like much other entertainment that we watch and read is not always something that will make us better Christians nor is much of our entertainment going to help our salvation. So does it help our theosis: the answer is clearly 'no'.
If I am not mistaken, you used to be a minister, and I appreciate the challenge you set forth. It is making me think about what I have been watching and reading, and the benefit of challenging others is to make them think...so I thank you for that.
As for discussing this movie or anything else that is frivolous, I think that we should realize that not all may be at the spiritual level you are in right now, (and I say this, truly, in all honor of you and humble sincerity)--or that some may have once been there and may have slipped. Then again, we don't know what secret acts of charity and piety others, (even those who go to the movies ), may be engaging in.
Also, sometimes, in the difficult journey we call Lent, some may actually need some respite from the prayer, services, and fasting they are otherwise engaging in which is always coupled by the stress of making a living and raising families and other day to day realities. Since we are not monastics, in my humble opinion, I think that we need to keep a healthy yet virtuous and wholesome balance in our lives, and IN the world which we live---though we are certainly not OF it.
You are certainly free to give your opinion, and I can't help but feel that those who dissagree with you are 'misreading' your intentions. But then again, I think we all tend to do that at times.
I think you're owed an apology. Those attacks on you for expressing yourself were uncharitable, and after all, I did humble myself and apologized to Logus Teen. Frankly, it did my soul a world of good.
I apologized as well and also commented on my "liberalism" vs. your "conservativism."
And, I'm ashamed to say, my basic grammar skills have left me: is it conservatism or conservativism? I think it's the latter. I can't believe I don't know this.
I have always wondered how someone can give a critical analysis of a book or a movie without having read or watched it. How can you acclaim or criticize the latest hip-hop song if you have not listened to it?
It reminds me of the U.S. Supreme Court about 30 years ago on the issue of whether the movie Deep Throat was obscene. Justices Brennan, Marshall, and others said the movie was protected by the First Amendment, even though they had never seen it.
On the other hand, Justice Rehnquist dissented on the grounds that the movie was obviously obscene. It was reported that Justice Rehnquist and his law clerks saw the movie no less than four times, and even brought popcorn to the theatre so they could better decide if the movie was obscene.
I have not seen the movie V for Vendetta; therefore, you will not hear reviews from me. I just wonder how others are able to comment about it when they have not seen it.
For those who have seen it, your comments are very much appreciated. Last thing I want to do is spend a bunch of money to see trash.
I did read your apology and do accept it, and thank you for it. As for your grammar skills, I'm a total idiot so I can't help you with that one...sorry!
Now to respond to your other post, I really didn't want to get into politics but being what I am, I can't control myself. So here's my outspoken 'political' opinions.
You said:
"I do know what you mean about social pressure as regards to freedom of speech. I believe certain groups of people have "hijacked" the Holocaust, as if it only happened to them. We all know that that the Holocaust sought to destroy more than one group of people.
I say:
Actually Hitler being German and therefore hating his neighbors, (as all nations do because of boundaries), said in response to the League of Nations when they made demands: How can we listen to them when they have people as inferior as the Czechs.
You said:
"I don't know why you paint me as a liberal. I totally pro-life. Is that liberal?"
I say:
Actually your viewpoints on many issues are liberal. You tend to do what many do, and that is take one part, such as being pro-life, but reject everything that has brought about abortion. I don't think you realize that the Republican party is the party that is trying to change the culture. The same culture that has brought about abortions, etc.
You said:
At the same time, I am anti-war (unless it's "Just," and that can get pretty tricky),
I say:
You know we would have had a war sooner or later, so the sooner we faced reality and tried to do something about it, the less the amount of people that will suffer or die. I say this because what is going on with the Muslims is basically the same that happened with Japan and Germany before the Second World War. The death toll then was about 60,000,000, not to mention the total destruction of Germany, and almost all of Europe.
We don't want a repetition of that, nor do we want to live in a Muslim society. You know it took ten years of our occupation to change the German mindset. We're still there, and we're still in Japan because we always feared that they would become militaristic again. (I think though we're about ready to take our troops out). Do you know that the German children were not allowed to play with toy guns for many years after the war?
Actually Germany and Japan decided to put their agressive tendencies into raising their economies. A lot better I think
I am not for the death penalty as a punishment. Actually I believe in restitution for criminal acts. Each criminal should work at an average wage in jail for enough time to repay every person he hurt, including the wages of the judge, court, police, etc.
At one time the death penalty was working. When the Lindburgh baby was kidnapped in the early 1930's and the death penalty was imposed, kidnapping immediately stopped.
Today though, the criminals are so many and so crazy, that it frankly wouldn't do anything, so why bother. Better though than having to either feed them or kill them, is to have them work to pay back everyone. The only problem with that are the labor unions. They fear that the criminals will be taking their jobs away.
You said:
".. am for preserving our environment,.."
I say:
The problem here is our economic system. Certain actions could lead to a world depression where millions of people would die of starvation or from the wars that it would bring about. Preserving the environment is great, but it would have to come about gradually.
Also, I find it disheartening for property owners, as well as small business men, when they find out that they can't use part of their land because of some environmental law and so on. There has to be a balance, otherwise we'll all end up like California.
You said:
"... am for higher taxation for the wealthier for heavy estate taxes, etc."
I say:
That is socialism, and it has been found to lower the standard of living. It doesn't work. Now what is smarter is to eliminate the income tax.
A graduating Sales tax would be a smart idea. The more expensive an item, the higher tax one would pay on it. I know of countries that do that.
Think of it, a rock star that wants to buy 10 Rolls Royces, would end up paying five times the cost. The problem though with that is will it lessen production, and therefore people might lose jobs. One would have to tread carefully.
Then there is the flat tax. This would eliminate all the loop holes in our tax system that has the billionaires paying nothing, and the middle class carrying the load of our nations debts. But then again, we wouldn't want to stop mortgage deductions or charitable one's, so again we would have to tread carefully.
I just couldn't get over your post, and kept thinking of those things that I had forgotten to mention. Now I know that this shouldn't be on this 'thread', and hope that by doing so, I'm not boring or anoying others. If so, I apologize and beg them to bare with me.
Now you said:
".. am for higher taxation for the wealthier, for heavy estate taxes, etc."
I say:
I personally feel that it's a pity that so many of the children of farmers were not able to inherit the land after so many generations because of estate taxes. Most have been bought up by multi-billion corporations.
Also, high taxes, medical insurances because of law suits, and all the different environmental legislation, (under the Dems of course), have hindered people from opening, or expanding small businesses and thereby hindering job growth. I believe though that some of these problems have been solved by this administration...fortunately.
Now don't get me wrong. I'm not against these multi-billion corporations. I realize that our standard of living would not be as high as it is, but more important they give jobs to people in the far east and India that would normally be starving. It's just that we shouldn't hinder Americans from using their minds and intiative to open and have their own businesses. It's these small businesses that create jobs for Americans and have made America great. In other words, it's respect for the individual and their freedom to build on their dream.
Also there is another factor I didn't mention. About a third of our economy, (or so I heard), is underground. Now that runs into trillions of dollars.
As an example: Most workers will give a lower price if some service is paid in cash. That way they will not report it as income. Also large deals are made overseas where some money is not shown, and is deposited directly into Swiss accounts.
So we have here a failing income tax system, where the middle class, (and that could run from $30,000 a year to $250,000 a year depending where one lives), pays all the taxes. About one third of our economy is not taxed because it is underground, and another third because of the tax loop holes lobbied by those that can afford the accountants. All in all, a failed system where those that can most afford it, pay nothing.
Now according to you, you would like a socialist system and have the government take over everything. The problem is that governments create bureaucracy, and most of the money is ill spent. Again as an example: When charity is given by the government, one has to consider the wages. If though the money is given by faith based charities, the amount given to workers is minimal.
So as they say the government is not the solution, but the problem.
Why would anyone want to see a movie that can corrupt their soul. Does not anyone believe in spiritual warware anymore? The devil uses tools such as television shows and movies to undermine the diginity of eech person. If we live by a set of moral standards set forth by our Church, why would we want to see people on the screen committing sins that we are forbidden to commit? It is especially horrible for one to watch a movie that not only portrays violent and sexual scenes, but parades them as good.
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