www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall The Priest's Use of Liberty

In reply for great demand, I submit to you this poll:

Why don't you write the questions with language that is a little more neutral. Or is it a push-poll that you're after?

I apologize if what I wrote didn't sound like English. Some may not be aware that a Typicon exists in our church. The Typicon is like a guidebook that the church publishes that spells out what services are to be celebrated and when.

Priest is at full liberty to celebrate church liturgies services according to his personal spirituality and whim. [read: the priest can do anything he wants whenever he wants. If he thinks Presanctified Liturgy is an "Orthodox thing" he may celebrate the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom on Wednesday and Friday evenings instead followed by Benediction or Stations of the Cross because that is what HE wants.]

Priest should follow church services, but may alter or include rites and/or words that suit him and/or some parishioners that are not found in the texts. [read: the priest can include foreign rites and/or alter liturgies if that is what the people want. The priest may view himself as an employee of the people, not the church-at-large.]

Priest must follow the Typicon and church texts, but may abbreviate parts out of "pastoral necessity. [read: he must follow the liturgical guide book and texts, but can shorten them for pastoral reasons without actually skipping or omitting them.]

Priest must follow the Typicon to the letter as well as the church services leaving nothing out. [read: the priest must faithfully follow his church's guide book/Typicon and texts, never altering it for ANY reason whatsoever.]

So, what option would I select if I think that a priest should have the option to follow a fuller Liturgy (more antiphons and litanies) than a mandated liturgy text like the Revised Liturgy in the Ruthenian Church?

Overachievers always blow the stats. :p Option 4 is closest because its degree of liberty has already been met ... and surpassed. Sorry for not considering those above and beyond compliance.

Joe

Isn't option 4 basically the idea behind mandating the Revised Liturgy?

"none of the above."

Yours,

hal

Dunno. What does the Revised Liturgy look like?

I guess option 4 was in regard to compliance as opposed to sheer whim. Kinda like one's job description and employee handbook. Nothing in it about those employees who will go beyond the call of duty. There are just some who love their job and are giddy because of it.

I should probably get out of the poll business. It reminds me too much of the donkey, old man, and child story.

I purposely limited the scope of liberty not because I have anything against those who'd prefer to live at church. Last night, I asked my son (who is only eleven) what he had to say about long liturgies and if Sunday Liturgy should be restricted to only one hour +/- 15 minutes. He thought keeping the liturgy short to suit fidgety and bored people very selfish. "We're there to love God, not ourselves!" he said. He mockingly sat in the corner of my study and crossed his arms saying, "Its not all about me, me, me."

So, I do recognize those who just can't get enough about God and worship. However, the poll limits the scope of liberty only in regard to compliance. Its more about matching what is in the box with the picture and ingredients on the cover than getting the additional 33%. One of my biggest arguments is the former rather than the latter. Who would feel ill-will towards those who prefer to worship God and pray some more at home? Not me.

After cantoring some long and exhausting liturgies, I feel grateful when people leave the temple saying things like, "Now THAT was a Liturgy!" or "I definitely got my worship in this week!" or "Wow! I felt like I went to church today!" There is nothing like taking Dormition service that includes both Vespers, procession and Matins. This only confirms the other poll being taken from our readers. People who want to be there really don't mind doing extra time. Anyway, worship to them IS a timeless event.

I was reading a book written by a Roman Catholic priest who spent time in Egypt living with the Coptic Orthodox monks. One day, he celebrated the RC Mass and a number of monks and workers were in attendance interested how RC folks celebrate their service. The priest noted how he took all the prayers, anything that would prolong the liturgy in a more reverant fashion. I believe he wrote (I don't have the book on hand) that the Mass took 1.5 hours or so. The monks really enjoyed the RC Mass but complained that by the time they were finally getting into it, it was over! Oh well. You can't satisfy everyone.

Cantor Joe Thur