www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Ghosts And The Supernatural

I got thinking about this topic and how it relates to Catholic-Orthodox teaching after finishing the book Muldoon , which was written by the late Rocco Facchini a former Catholic priest. Facchini claimed that the rectory and church of St Charles Borromeo was haunted for over 40 years by the spirit of Chicago auxilliary bishop Peter Muldoon. Facchini described numerous incidents, and even named other priests at St Charles who were present when Muldoon's spirit caused disturbances. Whether or not the story is actually true, seems irrelevant to the fact that there appears to be an established history of supernatural experiences (not religious visions in this case)among Catholics well into the last two centuries. One of Chicago's most revered priests, Fr Arnold Damen wrote of seeing the ghosts of two young altar boys who had drowned in a river, and there are lesser known stories connected with sane and devout people. Searching online, I've been able to find little, regarding what Apostolic Christianity teaches on the subject. I have read little bits and pieces about spirits of the dead who are in purgatory (obviously this is Catholic) returning briefly to ask for prayers. I even vaguely remember reading one about Pope Innocent III. So, my question is, does anyone know of any definitive Catholic-Orthodox teaching on the matter ?

Dear Lawrence,

Don't know of any official teaching, but whenever we have had problems with poltergeists, we had blessings with holy water and, at one time in my life, a minor exorcism.

I was interviewed for a TV programme called "Ghostly Encounters" where I relate an experience in my youth with poltergeist activities where clothing began to float in the air in the room I shared with my brother.

I looked up at the icon of Our Lady of Perpetual Help, the clothes came down on me, but did not cover my face etc.

This will be a half-hour show with child actors re-enacting the events . . .

BOO!

Alex

It stopped when you stopped eating those nice cookies.

I suppose it is why we have our homes blessed. I met an exorcist from Canada who told of his first job of blessing a house where all sorts of things were flying around the place. He followed the service and the place was all quiet afterwards. He thought that was it, until he found his name had gone onto a short list know to the bishops and he was on call to them for the same sorts of work.

Actually in some of the instances I've read about, the manifestations have been, dare I say it, good spirits. According to Facchini, Bishop Muldoon's supernatural appearences, though frightening, were intended for the good of those who witnessed them. Fr Damen said the ghosts of the drowned altar boys led him to there dying mother, who had been virtually abandoned and was unable to request a priest. Obviously no one considered the need for an exorcist under these circumstances.

Personally...I believe that "ghosts" are manifestations of evil one.

People claim that ghosts are actually the spirit of a person who passed away and still haunt around to "finish" the unfinished business.

That is just hogwash.

Spirit of a person either go to Heaven, Hell or a "place of the dead for purification" or something. They just don't roam around on earth among the living.

I have seen few manifestation of a "ghost" before...and I've concluded it's of the evil spirit or the demons.

I don't know why people get too caught up in this "ghost" fad right now and just not realizing the source of the "ghost"!!!

If there's a "ghost" then CALL the excorcist immediately. Not Ghostbusters!

(Who are ya gonna call? Excorcist! Excorcist!)

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

During our ByzanTEEN class this past October we talked about this. We were talking about the difference between soul and spirit. It was around Halloween and someone brought up the question are ghosts real? After much discussion and a quick check with the Catholic Catechism we decided that yes they are real. They are souls that are troubled because they can't go to heaven yet and can't get into hell either. Unlike the way most movies portray ghosts they cannot physically harm people. We also thought that if we came into contact with a troubled spirit then we need to help them get onto the next life somehow. They need a spiritual guide.
As we were discussing this the lid of the garbage can that rests under an icon of the crucifixion flipped off of the can for no apparent reason whatsoever. It was very odd.

in Christ,
Katie g

One story from the book Muldoon, that I particularly liked, was when after Muldoon's death in 1927, Monsignor Matthew Canning and two assistants, all of whom were ordained in the minor order of exorcists (fairly common prior to 1972) began hearing terrible sounds from the 3rd floor of the rectory. Putting on his purple stole, and armed with his Rituale Romanum, Holy Water and a flashlight, Monsignor Canning began investigating to find the source of the sounds. While searching a room containing old vestaments, he noticed a bulge in one, and upon closer examination discovered it was caused by a pyx, a small vessel used for carrying consecrated hosts. To his horror, Canning found 6 yellowed unused hosts. After properly disposing of them in the sacrarium, the terrifying noises from the 3rd floor at least stopped.

Well, here are some stories.

The first encounter I recall having was when I was in my early twenties. I remember dreaming about my deceased grandmother, and then recall hearing her slow footsteps coming up the stairs. In my half sleep state, I realized that she wanted to tell me something, and I was fearful that it would be something dreadful, like someone would die... so I refused to listen.

Well, I heard the loud rattling of papers, (a ghostly sound), and suddenly realized that I was awake because I could hear someone breathing.

Now my grandmother had died on a visit to Greece, and she was buried there. My father sent money to buy a piece of land within the grounds of a church of Saint George. A church that she had taken care of in her youth. Well, it seems that the caretaker or priest at that time was not very honest. He didn't buy the ground, so that three years later the bones were dug up, (as is usually the case in Greece), and placed them with all the other accumulated bones.

Well, it was three years later that I heard my grandmother coming up the stairs... no doubt to tell me that her bones were being moved. It also happened to be all soul's day.

Now my mother told me a story about a boy that was climbing down a mountain and fell to his death. Every night the people would hear his screams, until finally the priest came and blessed the area so that he could find peace. Frankly I had always heard that when someone dies a traumatic or tragic death, their disturbed soul is continuously reliving that experience.

Now I know that when I was on my mother's island, which had suffered a massacre in the early eighteen hundreds, ghosts were quite common...(although the Greeks called them 'phatasmata'; fantasies). They always existed at certain spots, and the women usually had parasols, (a custom at the time of the massacre), tiny waists, (sounds like French prostitutes to me--yes, there was a French quarter), and feet like goats, (no doubt 'clopines', the high heels of the time). They always faded away the way ghosts do, with their skirts becoming longer, and so on and so forth.

Well with the coming of electricity, and all the cars and young people running around at night, they seem to have dissapeared. Yet, I remember one night in a hotel hearing people talking below the room. The strange thing was that the talking, rather than getting louder as they came closer to the hotel, and then gradually fading away, it remained at the same level. I suddenly realized that it was supernatural, and said a prayer. The talking immediately stopped.

This also happened to someone else I know, and fortunately neither of us went to the balcony to see what it was. The odd thing was that even though they were speaking Greek, I couldn't understand a word they were saying. I can't help but wonder if they were speaking the dialect of the area as it was at the time of the massacre...probably a mixture of Greek and Italian.

So not to mention the more recent encounters of the younger members of my family, that have a tendancy now-a-days of running around at all hours of the night, I can't help but wonder if all these ghosts, (such as those in New Orleans that the National Guard was encountering, and at Gettysburg), might be relieved of their suffering by the blessings of a priest?

Zenovia

Dear Katie G. you said:

I say:

I've had so many experiences myself, and even though I know that they shouldn't be mentioned, I can't help but tell this one.

I was talking with my daughter, and I don't recall what we were talking about, but no doubt it had to do with the supernatural, when suddenly the telephone gave me a rasberry. At the same time, my daughter heard the telephone ring. Well, as we discussing it, and how it was impossible for her to hear it ring when she was on it, and I in the meantime heard the rasberry, it happened again a second time. Well I always relate three as being good, and two as being evil... :rolleyes:

But as I said, I am quite accustomed to weird happeneings...and I know darn well where they are coming from.

Zenovia

Hi,

My experience is that so-called supernatural phenomena usually have more earthly and mundane causes than supernatural ones.

When I was a teenager we had a rather unruly poltergeist at home, which seemed to go away with a simple blessing of our home by our pastor.

Later I learned there is a correlation between teenagers and poltergeists, not because teenagers are agents of the evil one (something I am not necesariliy denying ), but rather because the chemical/emotional storm inside a teenager's body might have considerable electro-magnetic implications with rather spectacular manifestations.

Yes, it is tempting to say that blenders that turn on by their own, TVs that change channels by their own even while turned off (this was before Remote Control TVs came to Mexico, this was a knob-turning VHF-only set, there were heavy mechanical pieces involved), and lids flying off pots and pans after the range burner had been off for a couple of hours are all works of a ghost or a demon

However, if you stop to think about it a little more, what would be the evil one be trying to accomplish by turning on blenders, changing channels of a TV it is not on to begin with (and even if on, it didn't have Playboy, CSPAN, or any other of those demonic channels), or playing freezebe with pot lids?

If it was a demon, it was a rather stupid one. :p

Shalom,
Memo

Here's a fairly well known story I alluded to earlier, taken from the Chicago Almanac.

The Two Altar Boys at Holy Family Church
It is said two altar boys, brothers who drowned together in 1874, haunt the aisles of Holy Family Church at 1080 W. Roosevelt. In his autobiography, Father Arnold Damen, the church's founder, reported he was awakened by the boys one night in 1890. He said they were wearing cassocks and holding candles and led him to a dying woman, their mother -- and then they disappeared. Two statues of the boys were carved, one for each side of the altar. Some worshipers used to swear that the wooden eyes followed them.

"However, if you stop to think about it a little more, what would be the evil one be trying to accomplish by turning on blenders,"

Get people to drink too many margaritas perhaps?

I have numerous books full of "true" ghost stories, from America and worldwide. One of the creepiest I've read happened in Wisconsin. This family's story actually appeared on Unsolved Mysteries. In their new home, the father saw glowing eyes, heard disembodied voices.... the children saw a hideous apparition.... I would bet that most hauntings are indeed linked with occult activity and that "ghosts" are demons.

A woman I know tells a story of someone who moved into an apartment and saw a hooded apparition several times at night. Her neighbor was into the occult.

I was visiting family in Virginia and fell asleep in my sisters bedroom. I woke up and there was a woman in white, with long hair floating over my bed. I reached up to her and told her to go away, which she did. I thought it was a bit strange, but chalked it up to a "waking dream"...until my mother told me weeks later of a visitor my sister and brother had been having in their rooms lately. I asked - "Is she a woman in a long white dress with long hair?" My mother paused for a moment and said "Yes - did they say something to you?"

I said "Nope. You're not going to believe this, but..."

So everyone get their house blessed this year so far?