www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall What Is Happening to the Armenian Catholic Church

Shlomo Lkhoolkoon,
Does any one know the details about the sale of the Armenian Catholic Cathedral in New York City? Where are they moving their Eparchal Center too?

Poosh BaShlomo Lkoolkhoon,
Yuhannon

I heard they may be going to Brooklyn.

In Christ,
Anthony

St. Ann's began life as a Baptist church a little over 150 years ago. A decade after it was built, it was sold to a Jewish congregation who worshipped in it for a dozen years prior to selling it to the Archdiocese of NY about 1870. The church is Gothic in design, has beautiful stained glass windows, a privileged altar, and an organ that has historical signficance. There are some pics - although small and dark - at the website of the NY chapter of the American Guild of Organists.
St. Ann\'s Armenian Catholic Cathedral [nycago.org]

The Armenians have used the church for a couple decades now, I believe since erection of their Exarchate in 1981. However, their use of it hasn't been exclusive. A Tridentine Mass is celebrated there weekly, on Saturdays. In addition to the Soorp Badarak (Armenian Divine Liturgy), there are two Latin Rite Masses celebrated each Sunday, one in English and one in Spanish; the latter serves a primarily Ecuadorian community.

The Cathedral apparently became one on a list of closings that the NY Archdiocese had announced a while back would be forthcoming.

Through the kindness of a friend in NYC, the following is a copy of text from the December 2003 Bulletin of Saint Ann's Armenian Catholic Cathedral, the seat of the Apostolic Exarchate for Armenian Catholics in the US and Canada:

Unfortunately, when our Churches are dependent on the goodwill of Latin dioceses for their daily and continued existence, we have to expect that there will be times like this. One can only be thankful that there are hierarchs such as Bishops Daily and DiMarzio who come to the rescue. It isn't clear, though. whether the solution is only a stopgap measure, still lacking the permanency of a church titled to the Exarchate.

Has anyone seen a full list of the NY closures? I know that our brothers and sisters of St. Michael's Byzantine Russian parish have been concerned; they are situated in the former chancery of the NY Archdiocese and, consequently, exist at the Cardinal Archbishop's pleasure.

It's way too easy for our isolated sisters and brothers, particularly those without hierarchy, to suffer the same fate as Our Lady of Kazan (Russian) in Boston (suppressed in 1974) and Christ the Redeemer (Belarusan) in Chicago (suppressed in 1995); altho the Boston and Chicago Archdioceses deserve credit for supporting those churches long after it was "practical" to have done so.

Prayers for our brothers and sisters of the Armenian Exarchate and Bishop Manuel (Batakian).

Many years,

Neil

Neil,

Has the Archdiocese of New York come upon monetary problems, parishioner problems, neither, or both?

Logos Teen

I can't stop feeling sorry about the Latin Old Ritualists, now they're in a place of much inferior nature in the Catholic Church, even than the Eastern Catholic Churches who have been fighting for their rights of equality within the Catholic Communion.

In Western Europe, many Latin Rite Christians have seeked refuge for the celebration of their masses in the parishes of Oriental or Eastern Orthodox, for example because no bishop would face the "scandal" of hosting that liturgy in their parishes.

Now the Diocese takes the Cathedral of the Armenians to be made a shopping mall. How can this happen? Isn't the Armenian Catholic Exarchate a Diocese with equal rights?

Garrett,

I think that the Archdiocese of NY, like many other jurisdictions, is looking at the expenses associated with churches - particularly those large older churches which are notoriously expensive to heat, maintain, etc. and which serve smaller congregations that can be merged into other nearby parishes. Add to that the need for monies to meet the expenses of settling lawsuits, etc., and the prospect of deriving significant income from the sale of prime Manhatten real estate must be pretty alluring.

Mexican,

St Ann's is one of three churches in Manhatten at which the Tridentine Liturgy is celebrated, so the Latin traditionalists will be nowhere near as deprived as they are in dioceses where the local ordinary refuses to exercise the indult.

Catholic usage differs from that of the Orthodox Churches in that an Exarchate has come to be understood as a mission jurisdiction, not technically a diocese, and best understood to represent that stage of ecclesial development prior to erection of a diocese or eparchy. (Explaining why the Armenian jurisdiction was not included in the USCCB's recent audit with regard to sexual abuse policy, etc.)

Remember that the Armenian Exarchate does not own their Cathedral; they have leased it from the New York Archdiocese for 2 decades now, suggesting that they lack the financial resources to purchase or build their own ediface. Whether the Brooklyn See intends to title their church property to the Exarchate isn't addressed anywhere that I've seen; it would be a wonderful thing if they did so.

While subject to the Congregation and not to the local Latin ordinary, an Exarchate is to some extent at the mercy, for better or worse, of a Latin hierarch within whose geographic bounds it exists. A case in point was the Melkite Exarchate, 35 years ago. We benefited tremendously from the generosity of the then-Cardinal Archbishop of Boston, Richard Cushing, memory eternal, who had an abiding love for all the Eastern Churches, before it was fashionable or politically correct to do so. In addition to using his considerable political ties to secure prime real estate for our Cathedral (as he had done years before for our Basilian Salvatorian Seminary), Cardinal Cushing donated nearly half the cost of building it. He was once referred to as "the Father in Christ of the Melkites in Boston" and again as "the (unofficial) Cardinal Protector of the (Melkite) Rite." We honor the memory of his caring with a large mosaic picture of him in the Cathedral's vestibule. Would that the Armenians find such a benefactor in the person of the Bishop of Brooklyn.

Many years,

Neil

This is very close to my heart. I served the indult Mass at St. Ann's when I was younger, and I still go there on occasion. The Church is nothing short of awe-inspiring.

The proposed destruction of this magnificent Church is a tragedy and an outrage. God bless our Una Voce group who protests outside the chancery every week.

Currently, there are several old Manhattan Churches slated for destruction.

OUR PEOPLE--the poor, ignorant, "Latin" immigrants from Ireland, who are so despised on this forum and elsewhere, BUILT THOSE GOTHIC CHURCHES IN MANHATTAN WITH THEIR PENNIES!!! If our traditional worship were to be restored--and if true priorities would return to the management of the American dioceses--it would be deemed a sacriledge to knock those Churches down.

Prime Manhattan real estate . . . . :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Since when are they despised on this Forum?- Eastern Catholics certainly have a reasonable problem with people in history such as Archbishop Ireland and others who were ignorant of Eastern Christian people and their tradition but not Irish immigrants!!!

Sorry, Brian.

Maybe I just notice things that I am sensitive to, but I have been rubbed the wrong way by the constant references (on the part of certain posters) to "those old Irish RC's" who were supposedly such idiots.

Of course not everyone has exhibited that attitude.

Sorry again.

Lt

LatinTrad,

God bless them Irish RCs. Me have several Irish in me blood, namely the Meloys, McGuires, and Costellos. Me Captain Michael McGuire fought in the Revolutionary War and was the first to settle Cambria County (McGuire's Settlement) and later donated land for a church, which is now the Basilica of St. Michael in Loretto. I guess they did some good, eh? Just don't get started on Archbishop John Ireland ...

Joe,
Cradle Greek Catholic with some green Irish blood

LatinTrad,

Yes, yes, yes. Una Voce is truly fantastic. The Church is overrun with self-centered, money-grubbing, Satan-serving materialists and opportunists. Pity their poor souls.

*Backlash Deflector up and running*

The Irish are fantastic. Happily, I can trace my ancestry to some great men of Irish history.

Logos Teen

(emphasis added)

Breandan,

I take exception to your remarks. In almost 6 months of posting on this forum, and a lot longer reading it before I ever registered, I have never seen remarks of that nature directed against the Irish.

Additionally, as revered a tradition as it is here, and as much as I sympathize with the loss of a beautiful church ediface and a Tridentine Mass site, I object to hijacking the thread to promote personal agendas when the point of discussion was a serious issue affecting one of our Churches.

Many years,

Neil

Irish peopleare fun - Friday night in Dublin. Drunk people but all friendly as they greet you and wish you a good night! Lovely chap and chapesses. Excellent beer too (loved the Guinness Tour and the free pints they offered).

Anton

Dear Latin Trad,

My favorite church, and the church that belongs to every New Yorker who was born, raised, or works there, is St. Patrick's Cathedral. Not ONLY is it beautiful and full of the Holy Spirit, with faithful from ALL walks of life in prayer at any hour that you go into it, but, it also was, as you said, built with the pennies of your ancestors. And, even though I am Orthodox, I say glory to God for the gift they have given NYC, and may their memory be eternal!

I WISH that the Catholic Church would continue the architectural patrimony of the Gothic style in their new buildings. As a little girl in New York, Roman Catholic, to me, was synonymous with Gothic architecture. Nothing can replace the beauty, the peace, the serenity, and the awe inspiring feeling of respect one has when entering such an edifice, whether it is a church or an adjacent school.

Just as the Greeks have not fully abandoned Byzantine Architecture, although it has been reinterpreted, (mostly tastefully), so too Catholic church architects should use the Gothic style as their starting base, and should look to the past for incorporating other elements as well. (For instance, the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception in D.C. which incorporates different materials and styles such as Byzantine)

Just my two cents!

In Christ our Lord,
Alice

May both the Armenians and the Tridentine community find appropriate places of worship. This is terrible that the church will be razed, think of the sacrifices and work of those who built it, the beautiful liturgies over the years, truly tragic.

Yuhannon, perhaps William on this forum (Ghazar) who is Armenian Catholic can answer to the larger situation with the Armenian Catholics.