www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Storm over Italy crucifix ruling - Pray Europe wakes up

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3215445.stm

A controversy has erupted in Italy over a court ruling ordering a state kindergarten to remove crucifixes from its classrooms.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rose:

"A controversy has erupted in Italy over a court ruling ordering a state kindergarten to remove crucifixes from its classrooms."


Separation of church and state is nothing new, why all the fuzz about it?

Christian

It is destroying the public schools in America. Right now on television on the Protestant TV channel Dr. Kennedy is talking about this very issue. The program has pointed out that on average Christian (protestant/catholic I am guessing) score 30% higher than secular schools. The rest of the statistics are amazing. Don't forget about the Columbine High School Shooting Tragedy. When God is removed from school and nations then these things seem to happen more often. That is why we are Christian because we believe in God and God controls the world.

I remember a story a Traditional Latin priest told me a few years ago. He said that when the Archdiocese sold the church's adjacent school to the board of education, a large statue of the Sacred Heart of Jesus was left in the school, after a few months, the new woman principal, came next door to the church, and asked if they could please remove the statue, because it really frightened the smaller children. The smaller children, the priest added, have probably already seen movies that would frighten us. Oh well, just part of the campaign to drive Christ from our schools and replace him with Marx, Mao, Freud, Sanger etc.

Come on folks! There are churches, there are church schools and there are public schools. In the US today there are people of various religions and not all of them are Christians. If I were a Jew and sent my kid to a public school I don't think that child needs to be seeing crucifixes. It's a simple matter of separation of church and state.

Religious schools can do whatever they want.

Let's get over this.


Fr. Mike Dobrosky
Meridian, MS

Dear Catholic Man:

Perhaps the reason kids in religious schools score 30% better is that they come from intelligent and well-to-do families that are able to afford to send them to a private school.

I'm with Father Mike and with Christian - most people agree that separation of church and state includes the publicly-funded classroom.

As for the point about Europe - one must remeber that it is not as homogeniously Christian as it once was.

While I'm on the subject, let me repeat something I heard over the weekend:

"I have no problem with a theocracy. I only have a problem with those who want to be theo."

Yours,

hal

Now wasn't it part of the Lateran Treaty signed between the Vatican and the Italian Government in the late 1920's, that the Italian schools were to keep the presence of the Catholic church in them?

Hey, the new world fad is to deny and defy all Christian religon, and promote Islam!

Okay, before anyone else brings this up (and aren't you proud of me, Alex?), this is an interesting topic but it's not really "Byzantine" news, now, is it??

Posted by Hal:

"I have no problem with a theocracy. I only have a problem with those who want to be theo."

Yours,

hal"

That's the heart of the difficulty with theocracy, Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Hindu, or any other. The theocrats, for lack of a better word, all want the government to compel everyone to follow the law of God as expressed in their own religion.

Thanks for the line, Hal.

Steve

Anytime, my friend.

hal

Of course, if any one of those religions is actually *the* one true religion*, then perhaps everyone *should* be following it ...

(*and I believe at least one of them is ... )

i'm just sayin ...

Oct. 27, 2003. 06:39 AM


Crucifix ban in classroom sparks outrage
Muslim parent sued for its removal
Italian judge's ruling angers Vatican


ROME�A judge's decision over the weekend to order the removal of a crucifix from the wall of a single classroom has set off a storm of debate and recrimination in Italy.

Mario Montanaro ruled that school officials in Ofena, near the central mountain town of L'Aquila, must take down the cross from a classroom used by children of Muslim activist Adel Smith.

Smith raised a furor two years ago when he described the representation of Jesus on the cross as a "miniature cadaver."

Montanaro wrote that the crucifixes in Italy's classrooms "show the state's unequivocal will to place Catholicism at the centre of the universe ... in public schools, without the slightest regard for the role of other religions in human development."

The school has 30 days to take down the cross.

Italy, which has deep Roman Catholic roots, is by law a secular state, but older laws permit the placement of crucifixes in its schools.

Although Saturday's court order is limited to the one crucifix, the Vatican and some government officials reacted with anger, arguing that the judge's action struck a blow at Italian "values."

"I am speechless," said Cardinal Ersilio Tonini.

"You can't remove the symbol of a people's religious and cultural values. The majority of the Italian people (are) offended by this verdict."

"This is an outrageous decision," said Labour Minister Roberto Maroni, commenting on behalf of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's government.

The justice ministry is ordering an inquiry into the legality of the judge's decision.

But some leaders applauded the decision. Italy has a strong tradition of secularism.

"It's a courageous innovative and modern decision that underlines the lay state," said Armando Catalano, who heads the teachers' section of Italy's largest trade union.

Washington Post

Okay, before anyone else brings this up (and aren't you proud of me, Alex?), this is an interesting topic but it's not really "Byzantine" news, now, is it?? [Wink]

Ahh, but to me this has everything to do with our Byzantine Faith. When we allow the Cross of Christ to be removed then in it is one more step in taking Jesus from the view of everyday man. One more step in closing the doors of our churches becuase of government. We need everything that Christ has given us to keep him before man.

Rose

Dear Rose:

In four years of public secondary education, four years of public university-level education and three-years of public professional legal education, I never saw a religious symbol of any kind hanging in any of my classrooms, and I'm still an active member of my Church.

In other words, give people some credit.

Yours,

hal

Posted by Theist Gal

"Of course, if any one of those religions is actually *the* one true religion*, then perhaps everyone *should* be following it ...

(*and I believe at least one of them is ... )

i'm just sayin ..."


Dear Theist Gal,

Of course I believe that, too. So, you and me and all of us believers have our work cut out for us, eh?

Guess we'll have to do as the Administrator suggested, in another thread and on another topic, and love the non-believers into believing that the True Faith is indeed the True Faith.

That's our job. It's not the government's as I understand it. Faith doesn't grow out of a gun or a law or a courtroom; it is a response to love that leads us to trust and to believe. At least, so it seems to me.

Nice to hear from you again.

Steve

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rose:

"When we allow the Cross of Christ to be removed then in it is one more step in taking Jesus from the view of everyday man. One more step in closing the doors of our churches becuase of government."

COME ON!!! So if we give religious freedom to non-Christians (and yes, religious freedom includes the right to not have your children indoctrinated into a certain religion in public schools) we are one step closer to the governtment closing the churches???