www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Special Report from the 'Onion Dome'

Parish Protests Common Easter

April 9, 2004

The Society of St. Theopemptos the Chronodule at Holy Martys of the New Calendar Yoke
Exceedingly Orthodox Church announced today that it wishes to go on record as disapproving of
Western Christians celebrating their Easter on the same day as Orthodox Pascha.

In an exclusive interview granted to The Onion Dome,* Society spokesman** Eugene (Mark of
Ephesus) Johnson stated, “This happens about once every decade, and it's got to stop. It smacks
of ecumenism. Just because the first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox
happens to fall on the same day on both the Julian and Gregorian calendars is not reason enough
for them to steal our feast.

“We Really Truly Exceedingly Orthodox believers make a point of being as different as we
possibly can, whether Orthodoxy really has anything to do with it or not. That's we've broken
with seven different Old Calendar jurisdictions. Furthermore, we don't want our long-sleeved,
headscarf-wearing, candle-kissing faithful confused with any of those heretics who go to church in
hats. They need to move their celebration.”

Asked whether he thought it was a step in the right direction for heretics to acknowledge the
Resurrection of Christ, Mr. Johnson stated that they do it wrong and furthermore they have no
business doing anything that doesn't make his little band of Orthodoxer-than-thou rebels feel like
anything but a persecuted minority.

In response to a question as to how likely it is that the public at large would confuse members of
the Really Truly Exceedingly Orthodox Church with, say, Southern Baptists, Mr. Johnson replied
that the enemies of the True Faith are everywhere and he didn't want to continue to talk with a
reporter who is not a member of his jurisdiction. At this point the interview ended.

* Well, actually, The Onion Dome was the only publication that sent a reporter to the press
conference.

** Mr. Johnson specifically forbade use of the term “spokesperson.”

This report was filed by Onion Dome deuce reporter Marie Moffitt

Link: http://www.theoniondome.com

Common date for Easter and Orthodox Pascha: "Is outrage!" :p

I couldn't agree more. Is outrage! [and no, I am not joking.]
Incognitus

But as an Old Calendarist on the verge . . .

I found having the holidays together to be much more conducive to be much less stressful than other years.

I don't care how the Churches do it, just get it together.

The Finnish Orthodox Church celebrates the Western Paschalion system - why are Finns so much more enlightened?

Alex

Christos Voskres!
Voistinu Voskres!

Dear Alex,

They are not more enlightened, just more practical. They were granted "temporary" oikonomia to follow the Gregorian calendar in the 1920s by the Ecumenical Patriarch, because this would ensure a deal under which they became one of the TWO official state religions. Lutheranism, at 98%, Orthodoxy at 2% of the population. They receive state support as such.

Gaudior, turning out that particular light

Dear Gaudior,

Ah, yes, more practical . . .

Heaven forbid if more Eastern Christians in North America followed suit in like manner . . .

I guess I've had one too many of my religion students tell me their parents think that those who follow the new Paschalion and calendar are "garbage" and then they themselves don't attend Church on Orthodox Great Friday because "there is just no time."

Would our Lord, heaven forgive me, not count such among the class of modern Pharisees?

Alex

Christos Voskres!
Voistinu Voskres!

Dear Alex,

I think back to some approaches to this, some or all of which may be in use in your parish already.

One: Parish youth are off from school on the Western Good Friday..either plan a Lenten retreat or better still plan a community service day for them tho ready the church grounds and interior for Holy Week. One parish I know of has the youth doing the landscaping (mulching, etc.).

Two: Include in church bulletins or by separate mailings excused absence forms signed by priests explaining the significance of Good Friday to Christians and the importance of Church attendance on this day, and requesting that the bearer be excused without penalty from school, work, etc. Having these letters generally makes a great deal of difference.

Three: If Orthodox/Eastern Catholic population is significant in a town, call/write local high schools, junior high schools and make them aware of the difference in Good Friday observances well in advance (this may be best handled through school boards) and request that no exams be given on that Friday. Generally, School Boards are accommodating to such requests, as they are elected officials. I know of at least one Massachusetts town which had two of the Jewish High Holidays off from public schools due to a large Jewish population.

As far as one calendar date...fine...with you on that...the Old Calendar is fine.

Dear Church Militant - I'm with you. And I have yet to read anywhere in the Bible such texts as "Blessed are the practical . . ." or "Blessed are those who keep up-to-date . . ."
I don't demand that the whole world adopt the Julian Calendar, merely that people cease their attempts to make us give it up.

Incognitus

Dear Gaudior and Incognitus,

I'm fine with the Old Calendar!

Most of the Ukrainians I know keep it, though, for "patriotic" reasons.

To want to not keep it means that one ceases to be a true "Ukrainian patriot."

If that is ALL the old calendar means for our Churches, then I would suggest that . . . the Administrator might have something to say on that . . .(sorry, Sir, but I don't want to be called a "traitor!" ).

Alex

Dear Incognitus,

So you would insist on the Old Calendar even though this might keep people from attending Church?

You yourself must follow a completely lunar calendar!

Your view of the way our laity think is from the moon!

Alex

Christos Voskres!
Voistinu Voskes!

Dear Alex:

If following the Old Calendar would make the laity stop going to Church, then laity truly ARE space shots....

Gaudior, in despair

Dear Alex,
Khristos Voskres! I hope that I am patriotic, but I am not a Ukrainian. And I am completely unaware of any reason to suspect that the Julian Calendar keeps people from going to Church. Leaving aside the (roughly) once in seven years possibility that 6 August or 19 August will fall on a Sunday, does anyone seriously believe that people who do not attend services on 19 August will suddenly flock to Church if services are held on 6 August?
The Gregorian Calendar has a long and unenviable record of causing our Churches a great deal of trouble. Has it sanctified anybody? It has very definitely split entire Local Churches; has it advanced the prospect of Church Unity?
As for the moon, someone is looking in the wrong part of outer space. Try focusing your telescope on the stars. You then might just figure out why NASA continues to use the Julian Calendar.
yours in the Risen Lord,
Incognitus

Actually NASA and the US Naval Observatory use the Serial Day Number, aka Julian Day (not to be confused with the Julian Calendar).

The fault, dear incognitus, is not in our calendars. But in ourselves.

djs writes that the fault is not in our calendars but in ourselves. That's like the defense of Detroit that the only thing wrong with the automobile is "the nut behind the wheel". Sorry, but the Gregorian Calendar is a piece of shoddy, pseudo-scientific balderdash completely unsuited to our Typicon and, as I have already remarked, it leaves ecclesiastical havoc in its wake.
At the risk of finding myself on the Onion Dome, I might point out that martyrs of the New Calendarist yoke are not an invention of humorists; they really exist. May their prayers assist us all.
Incognitus

I thought the alllusion would not be mistaken as a guns don't kill argument.

Well, it may be a little lacking by contemporary standards, but the development of the Gregorian calendar represents excellent science; it represents the very birth of science in the modern understanding of the term.

That's a different story. I understand that some like to strain the canons of Nicea to maintain a Typicon with a simple periodicity. That posture, however, strikes others as too much of an innovation.

Dear Incognitus,

My Church is divided along calendar lines, and that is a shame.

The idea of dying for the Old Calendar - let me say that in my Church no one would do that.

They would resist to the death, perhaps, the idea of the New (Latin,Polish) calendar, but it would have no further spiritual significance beyond that.

The fact of the Old Calendar is used as a convenient excuse for not attending church and we can heap all sorts of condemnations on those who do this.

The issues of great holiness under the Old Calendar and the like - are Byzantine Catholics, I mean the Administrator and many here who follow the Western Paschalion, are they any less holy or less Christian because they don't follow the Old Calendar?

But apart from the traditional Old Calendarist nonsense that I've read here, the fact is that there is only one person I know who would use a phrase as you have . . .

I've discovered your secret identity, Incognitus!

But, don't worry, it is safe with me.

So long!

Alex

Dear incognitus,

XB!

Can you please elaborate on how the Gregorian calendar is "completely unsuited to our Typicon"?

Thank you.

Tony

Alex asks "are Byzantine Catholics, I mean the Administrator and many here who follow the Western Paschalion, are they any less holy or less Christian because they don't follow the Old Calendar?" - I had to read this twice before realizing that Alex is probably referring to the Administrator of the web site, not to the Administrator of a parish.
But anyway, the answer is the same: I have no way of knowing. It might be more interesting to ask various people who use the Gregorian Calendar if they have thought the matter through, and if they themselves would ascribe outstanding holiness to the Gregorian Calendar - and, if so, on what basis.

Sorry, everyone, the computer has once again interfered with my thought processes!
Tony asks for specifics as to how the Gregorian Calendar causes problems for the Typicon. A fair and sensible question: here are some answers.
1) In the "compromise version" of the Gregorian Calendar as used in the Church of Greece and elsewhere in the Orthodox world, it can (and frequently does) happen that between the end of the Sundays after Pentecost and the beginning of the Triodion there are some "extra" Sundays, which are simply not provided for in the Church Calendar at all. [I suppose we could invent the Sunday of Jonah and the Whale, or something similar.]
2) Check the feast of Saint George the Great Martyr in the Menaion, and imagine yourself trying to chant some of this material during Great Lent!
3) In years when Pascha is late, we find that either the Fast of the Apostles falls out completely, or one is required to fast during the week immediately after Pentecost, when the Typicon prescribes that there should be no fasting whatever.

No doubt one could jury-rig some sort of response to these problems (without necessarily involving Jonah and the Whale!); since the Gregorian Calendar is itself a remarkable example of jury-rigging that might even be appropriate. But what's the point? Will such things sanctify anybody?
Dear Alex - the last person claiming to have guessed at my secret identity (I'm really Jimmy Olsen) was Father Michael Sopoliga of Florida - whom I do not have the pleasure of knowing at all and who would be quite unlikely to recognize me under any circumstances that come to mind.
Christ is Risen!
Incognitus

Dear Incognitus,

I had to read your posts twice as well . . .

The rays of Old Calendar holiness emanating from your words were positively blinding . . .

And there's only ONE Administrator in my life!!

Perhaps he could speak up here sometime soon on this topic?

God bless you, "Incognitus" (Now I feel a bit like Sherlock Holmes for having found you out - but I pledge to keep it to myself. I won't even tell Anhelyna . . . ).

Alex

Dear Incognitus,

What threw me was when some who had already found you out told me that I would kick myself when I found out who you were . . .

And they were right . . .

But it was something you said that I've heard before that gave you away, quite by accident.

I have a memory for idiosyncracies - having a few myself . . .

I don't know about the Jimmy Olsen thing, but I'd consider you a "super man."

But I would recognize you all right.

And unlike the good Father you mentioned, I like you . . .

Alex

incognitus,

Perhaps I am misunderstanding when you are writing "Gregorian Calendar." Are you not referring to Western Paschalion perhaps? Is that what you mean by "compromise version"? That is rather different from the Gregorian calendar itself.

It is my understanding that if one follows the Gregorian calendar fully, not mixed as does the OCA and GOA, for instance, there is no unforseen collision. The Synodal Typikon ("Russian" Sabbaite of September 1896) provides for the feast of the Great-Martyr George falling as early as Great Friday. After the main entry for April 23rd there follows "Ukaz o velikom mučenic�i Georgij. Načinajetsja ot dne velikaho pjatka, i voschodit do četvertka 5-ja ned�ili po Pasc�i." Then gives clear directions if it falls from Great Friday to Pascha. Does The Typikon you are consulting not provide for that?

Tony

Alex,

Isn�t your wife the �ONE Administrator� in your life? After Christ, of course!

--

The Gregorian Calendar is simply the Julian Calendar with adjustments to make it more accurate. Both are secular calendars and neither rises to the level of doctrine. It is the Church herself which has sanctified time.

Admin

Dear Administrator,

Well, my wife isn't as nice and even-handed as you sometimes . . .

And to refer to her as an "administrator" would suggest that she would be open to negotiation once in a while . . .

Excellent response to Incognitus . . .

Hopefully he knows when a battle doesn't have a chance of ending in a victory!

God bless,

Alex

The Christian battle itself doesn't have a chance of ending in victory - but then again, Christ has given us victory already, so there's nothing to worry about!

Christ is Risen!

Incognitus

Christ is Risen!
Truly He is Risen!

Mr. Administrator!

I bow to you...

"It is the Church herself which has sanctified time."

And with the Church we are always in Kairos, not Chronos!

Although I remain firmly convinced that the Churches should have left the calenders ALONE...I remain equally firmly convinced that as matters now stand, most of those who may feel this way in their hearts will not have the opportunity of living a liturgical life that way, because they belong to a jurisdiction which is New Calendar.

They fast, pray, pledge, worship, and observe the Feasts of the Church with joy in their hearts! It may be tinged wih some regret for what they do not have, what is jurisdictionally denied to them, but it should not be tinged with guilt for what they cannot help. Sadly, those who understand the calendar issue are not, and will not be a plurality, not enough to force a vote for change. It isn't politics, where such can happen. The best (regret tinged with cynicism) is that by telling Americans they can get after-Christmas shopping specials if they change back you might get a bit of an influence, an impetus for change...until someone remembers this means they can't get blind drunk on New Year's Eve...

No...best to leave the calendar issue where it belongs...OFF the internet fora, where it is discussed ad nauseum, and in prayer, prayer that it can be resolved, properly back where it belongs, in such a way that no fasts are lost, no feasts are compromised, and all Christianity can celebrate together, without blame.

Remember this...I stand firmly convinced that the Julian calendar is the calendar for the Churches to use. But that does not mean I think any the less of those who do NOT use it. I ~WILL~ think the less of you when you tell me you will not use it because it is too much trouble to go to church on those days (as opposed to others). When it matters to you in your heart, when Christ is FIRST IN IMPORTANCE, you will be in Church. Yes, even if it means...GASP...you take VACATION DAYS for Feast Days. When it means THAT much to you, you will...OLD CALENDAR, NEW CALENDAR, MARTIAN CALENDAR...What matters is your heart. You cannot necessarily help your jurisdiction, but do not condemn others to justify your personal sloth, nor to praise your zeal.

Gaudior, climbing DOWN from the soapbox and running for cover

For me the tragedy of this is that it turns into a battle. I was really hoping to engage in some productive discussion about this matter. I quoted a source that is readily verifiable and was hoping to have a response in-kind.

Dear Tony,

You were hoping to engage in productive dialogue?

What about me? My thread which was posted for light humour got hijacked into anger and divisiveness!!!

Is outrage!!!

In Christ,
Alice

I think that I will be taking a little break from the forum because of all the anger on many of the threads lately, which saddens me greatly. Did we not just bask in the glow of love and spiritual joy of Pascha???? Thank God my priest is starting his weekly supplication services tomorrow...maybe Bright Week left us all a little bit unleashed in our spiritual lives?

In Christ,
Alice

Dear Alice,

XA!

Well, threads develope. Too often some deteriorate. What surprises me is how fast it happens.

Whatever!

Tony

Dear Alice,

Please don't leave, even on a sabbatical!

The calendar issue is an important one and I'm sorry that Tony's desire to have a productive discussion on this matter is being ignored by the defenders of the Old Calendar here.

I"ve been an Old Calendarist all my life and have indeed taken vacation days to observe the major Holy-days, as Gaudior said.

But I think this issue deserves some reflection that goes beyond the line of "that's the way it is, let's pray that you come around to it eventually."

If that is the best Old calendar apologists can do, then that is simply not good enough.

In other words, "Is REALLY outrage!"

Tony presented the case for what I was hoping would be a truly intelligent and knowledgeable exchange on this issue.

Tony is a leader because he doesn't back away from asking questions about the status quo.

Frankly, it is the status quo that has always prevented our Churchs from moving ahead in North America.

I think I see that now with respect to my own Church and that what the Administrator has always said about these matters are, in fact, more than correct.

Status quo defenders refuse to engage anyone in debate.

They are like the faithful captains ready to go down with their sinking ships.

Alex