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Dear Abdur,

Yes, the iconoclasm thing is a problem, to be sure.

I was on a radio show once where a Muslim argued with me that we should not have images at all.

My counter-point was that if one believes, as Christians, do that God became Man in Christ, then icons representing the Incarnate Word of God were not only appropriate, but implied by this theological world-view.

I also quoted him a Muslim philosopher who said that the most perfect form of union between God and humankind would be incarnation.

My Muslim friend then agreed that if Christ were indeed God Incarnate, then images of Him would be appropriate.

The "Evangelical" tradition, although claiming to be based on the Gospel, is really focused on what seems to be an Old Testament theological view that stands largely unchanged by the New Testament.

And St John of Damascus did show how images were used in religious art in Judaism.

I also understand that paintings occur in Islam of the Prophet (peace be upon him) but with his face covered. I've also seen images of Hussein and Ali in this way as well.

Alex

From art to iconography? Now that is culture shock.


Abdur

The Battle of Vienna was, in fact, won largely due to the military prowess in cannon warfare of Yuri Kulchitsky, a Ukrainian Orthodox!

Thanks, OrthCath et al.! This is precisely the type of info which I was seeking...


Well, Dave, battle of Vienna was of September

Yes, Subdeacon Peter, I've seen that elsewhere... as I have seen the 11th... Do you suppose that both Belloc and Bin Laden got the date wrong?

Dear Dave,
Just look at your own link to the Catholic Encyclopedia:

"(...) On 11 Sept., Sobieski was on the heights
of Kahlenberg, near the city, and THE NEXT DAY
HA GAVE BATTLE on the plain below (...)"

Sufficient or not?


sincerely,
subdeacon Peter