www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall The Catholic Vote

On EWTN there is a new program:

THE CATHOLIC VOTE (30:00 Each)
Father Frank Pavone, National Director for Priests for Life, presents a six-part series on the relevance of upcoming elections in the United States for the protection of human life. He cites several ways to get further involved in the political process.
EP.2: Without Life, We Have Nothing Else
Friday October 6, 2006 10:00 PM
Saturday October 7, 2006 2:30 AM

I remember some Cardinal say something to the effect that voting for a Pro-Choice politican is a mortal sin. Not sure if this is 100% accurate but I am sure its close.

To vote for a pro-death politician is definitely matter for grave sin if the opponent is pro-life. On the other hand, if you have a choice between two pro-death politicians (not an unusual occurrence), you have an obligation to try and determine who would do the least amount of damage, and vote accordingly. Voting for a third-party pro-life candidate is an option, if such an option is made available.

In Christ,
Dn. Robert

Father Deacon Robert,

What if your vote for the 3rd party candidate allows the pro-death candidate to be elected?

Does that rule only apply when both are pro-death?

What about the last election? I would have loved to vote for Keyes, but he wasn't going to win. And Kerry, was for keeping abortion legal, I didn't want him to win. Bush was for things that I'm not for but had/has the chance to put pro-life judges on the Supreme Court.

No matter who wins, we lose.

Bring back a king like St. Louis!

In the immortal words of Eugene Victor Debs: "I would rather vote for what I want, and risk not getting it, than vote for what I do not want, and be sure to get it!"

No fool, Debs.

Fr. Serge

Blahoslovy!

Thank you Father, for that quote.

From now on I'll vote for Jesus like Mother Angelica does.

Eugene Debs was a true hero

The present Pope addressed this complicated issue a couple of years back:

If we all want progress politically. All Catholics and Christians should produce their own canidate. Even if he only gets 15% of the vote the voting bloc would create a clear message for the future. Suppose some priest were to run knowing he wouldn't get elected and have to leave his parrish. We could at least win local elections.
The war is a huge issue. We are in the final holy war against Islam. We are not going to win by slowly sliding backwards as a culture.
I personally cringe at the idea of 2 sets of Republicrats that each have half of the Christian values each. It neturalizes the idea of Christ in government.
I will stand up to my values in spite of being homeless with social shame over my head and on my clothes.

QUOTE]Eugene Debs was a true hero [/QB][/QUOTE]

Brian,
as an Orthodox Christian, nay, as an Eastern Christian, who has lost family members to the mines of Kolyma and Magadan, bequethed upon us by socialists like Eugene Debs, I find your idolization of him to be disturbing. Son, wake up, actually talk to someone who has lived in, and under the thumb of a "socialist paradise" as purposed by Mr Debs. Socialism and Christianity are mutually exclusive.

Alexandr

Socialism and Christianity are mutually exclusive.
Alexandr [/QB][/QUOTE]

In 1931, in Quadragesimo Anno , Pope Pius XI said that no one can be a sincere Catholic and a true Socialist at the same time.

Dn. Robert

I find that quote very hard to believe. I can believe it as best Socialism is practiced. Communism did persucute the church between 1920s and the 1990s. But in theory socialism would be the ideal government. As long as greedy and selfish people exist socialism cannot work.
I think the early 1st century church was essentially socialist, but that was under leadership of Christ. I have studied intentional communities that are a house full of roommates living in a micro socialist enviorment.
I have a model of a socialist government that could work. Socialism only seems to work in small groups. My model is a series of groups of groups connected by Internet. However there would have to be world peace too or it would also fail.
Please don't be offended. I am not condoning the sick socialist government that allowed mine accidents and such. Socialism combined with selfish greed is like Christ upside down and reversed.

In 1931, in Quadragesimo Anno , Pope Pius XI said that no one can be a sincere Catholic and a true Socialist at the same time.

Dn. Robert [/QB][/QUOTE]


The Pope said nothing about the tradition of Christian socialism in that encyclical but secular MArxist thought which the great majority of socialist and social democratic parties abandoned long ago. The British Labour party for example grew out of the Churches especialyl Methodism in Wales and the Christian socialist tradition there.

Brian,
as an Orthodox Christian, nay, as an Eastern Christian, who has lost family members to the mines of Kolyma and Magadan, bequethed upon us by socialists like Eugene Debs, I find your idolization of him to be disturbing. Son, wake up, actually talk to someone who has lived in, and under the thumb of a "socialist paradise" as purposed by Mr Debs. Socialism and Christianity are mutually exclusive.

Alexandr [/QB][/QUOTE]

Alex,

you fail to distinguish between Democratic socialism of the moderate left (British Labour Party, Swedish Social Democrats) and Marxism-Leninism- Stalinism which is completely different.

The Pope said nothing about the tradition of Christian socialism in that encyclical but secular MArxist thought which the great majority of socialist and social democratic parties abandoned long ago. The British Labour party for example grew out of the Churches especialyl Methodism in Wales and the Christian socialist tradition there. [/QB][/QUOTE]

The Pope was referring to a Socialism which envisions complete ownership of the means of production by the State, which would violate the human right to own (in the Christian sense of stewardship) property. In that sense, you are correct. Leo XIII, in an encyclical on Catholic Social Teaching (I forget the title), in addition to condemning the above Socialism, also condemned "Laissez-Faire" capitalism. That's why Belloc and Chesterton began to promote the notion of "Distributism", a very interesting and Christian approach to politics and economics.

Dn. Robert

So far as I know, Eugene Victor Debs was not a Catholic and his career - possibly even his life - had come to an end before Pius XI said that. Blaming the horrors of Lenin and Stalin on Debs has no rhyme or reason.

Besides, I quoted Debs on one and only point - and on that point he was quite correct; voting for what we seriously do not want is silly.

Debs, by the way, was certainly a Chistian - the first edition of his biography was titled The Bending Cross, and he insisted that the socialism he was promoting was based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. I'm not enough of a student of his writings to have an opinion on that one way or the other.

There were certainly proto-Communists in the USA before the Russian Revolution; John Reed and Bill Haywood come to mind at once. Reed discovered the dishonesty of the Soviet types before he died; I don't know enough about Haywood.

The really tragic figure is Paul Robeson, who was without doubt a practicing Protestant Christian and who was dazzled by Communist support for the US blacks at a time when nobody else was supporting them (the Communists, of course, were doing this for reasons of their own). He also discovered, quite painfully, the truth about the Soviets and withdrew into self-imposed retirement and seclusion for the last 15 years or so of his life. God be good to him. After the USSR collapsed, people in Moscow found the long-lost tapes of his last concert in Moscow; it's now available as a CD. Well worth listening to.

Fr. Serge