www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Forgiving Mel Gibson

Let's put things in perspective.Mel Gibson was driving under the influence which is bad enough in itself, and I certainly don't defend his words.BUT, at the same time,a Moslem in Seattle recently gunned down one Jewish women while wounding others, yet the media gave this far less coverage than the Gibson story.I bet if a Caucasian policeman harrassed a Moslem even slightly, the news would be all over that.

Father,

Respectfully, I don't think it is a question of whether a Muslim did this or a Christian did that, the remarks and actions of Mel Gibson (under the influence or not) were indefensible anti-Semitism. I don't care if it was a Muslim or a Buddhist who make such statements, they are wrong.
I really don't believe that Mel is being unfairly "victimized"

The incident of last weekend is indeed a cause of embarassment to Mel Gibson and his family. It is, as an arrest, a matter of public record and accordingly publicized since Mr. Gibson is a public person and the media has judged it newsworthy. The part of this sorry drama that I find objectionable is the call for Gibson to be banned from Hollywood which emanate from the same crowd who whine so sanctimoniously about the blacklisting the occurred during the McCarthey era.

Mr Gibson ceased to be hot stuff ages ago in Hollywood and that is why his production company as been producing it's own work for a while now. What was the last film he was in? Mad max was ages ago.

Pavel said:

The Mad Max series was quite a long time ago, but I believe it was made in Australia rather than Hollywood. (I may in fact be wrong about this.) However, Gibson has made quite a few very profitable Hollywood films, including the Lethal Weapon series, Braveheart, What Women Want, etc. The man is clearly gifted as actor, director and producer.

However, he does appear to have a number of tragic flaws:

• Substance abuse;
• Anti-semitism. While the network news has not covered it to my knowledge, Inside Edition recently went more into his religious background. Gibson's father is definitely anti-semitic (denies much of the Holocaust happened), and Mel no doubt absorbed this while growing up. Yes, he was drunk, but yet the saying goes: In wino veritas.
• An extremely vituperative and profane mouth.

Gibson is also a complex man, and in his defense, he has condemned stem cell research and built numerous houses for the poor in Mexico during the filming of his newest movie Apocalyptica.

Sophia

Hollywood the business, as distict from the suburb, conducts it's business all over the world and various governments fall over themselves in encouraging Hollywood to do more that just make films in their states, or countries. Brisbane and Sydney are but 2 of such cities where there are huge studios and support facilities for the use of the film industry from the USA who have invested much $$$.

The point was made that there were those grandstanding in connection with his present problem, saying that they would not do busiess with them (they probably never did before, but it a way of getting ones name in the papers). The point was made elsewhere that he was already having difficulties in that area, which he got around by setting up his own production company.

Dont excuse the drunk and blame the vino. He said what was on his mind (which is reported to have been quiet a bit). Vino only loosend the tounge and uninhibited him.

Here's the reflection that has moved me more than all the others combined. I recommend Fr. Kimel's thoughts on his blog at Pontifications http://catholica.pontifications.net/

"I will withhold moral judgment. A person�s authentic character is not disclosed while �under the influence� nor is a person defined by his inner demons against which he struggles and from which he seeks deliverance and healing.

I have never read Charles Taylor�s Sources of the Self, but I suspect that this book might shed some light on this very modern response to the inebriated anti-Semitism of Mel Gibson.

Personally, I believe that the public response to Gibson�s alcoholic tirade is far more interesting, and revelatory, than the tirade itself. That we now identify the person with his inner subjectivity, feelings, and appetites is one of our critical social problems and is a source of moral confusion and chaos, not least in the area of sexual morality."

I had thought I was pretty good at separating the person from their inner demons. Theoretically I could see that a person struggling with this or that sin was different from the sin with which they struggle. I've argued this case over many many issues and thought I had had it settled concerning alcoholism. But I had not completely done so. Father's article has helped me in my theosis and has helped me more deeply love my mother who was an alcoholic.

My mother was a person made in God's image who struggled with alcohol. My friend, RV, was a person made in God's image who struggled with homosexual temptations and died too early of Aides. Mel Gibson is a person made in God's image who struggles with alcohol. You and I are people made in God's image who struggle with many sins. God through His Son redeems the humble before Him.

God is good.

CDL

Dear Pavel,

You make an interesting point about that actually being what was on Mel Gibson's mind. Perhaps it was. You are also right about alcohol loosening the tongue.

Let's think of it this way: Who among us has not atleast thought something generalized about a nationality of people or members of a religion? If one has a run in with, let's say, for argument's sake--a Greek, and thinks to himself: xxx fill in the blank w/a non-expletive adjective xxx Greeks, does that REALLY mean that they are 'anti-Hellene'? (Infact, people of an ethnic or religious background often condemn each other on these very same generalizations)!!

Does that mean that the person will hate and revile every person he meets of that nationality? I don't really think so.

I think that the media is making too big a deal about this, and I think that the true reason that they are having a field day with it is because he has deeply offended Hollywood liberals and athiests by having made 'The Passion of the Christ'.

In Christ,
Alice

You are correct! The politically correct would be all over that in a flash.

Alice,

i think it would be a mistake to vear from the person who made the vile remarks themselves (and they truly were anti-Semitic and not just innocent prejudice about a nation like the Greeks) and make this into part of the Hollywood "agenda" whatever that is or something cooked up by "liberals" Also, there are political liberals on this Forum too In my opinion, that would be a case of blaming the victim.

I read a column in The American Spectator Online, written by a lawyer, about the Mel Gibson situation.

He pointed out that, if being drunk really brought out the truth, that nobody should ever be allowed on the witness stand unless he or she is "bombed".

So, I don't buy the "in vino veritas". I Gibson were truly an anti-Semite, he would not have lasted in Hollywood as long as he has.

I make no excuse for his comments. I would like to point out that if not for the success of The Passion of The Christ, which was produced, directed and distributed outside of Hollywood channels, nobody would much care what Mel Gibson says, does or how much he drinks.

Gibson is a deeply flawed person. I have my own flaws and prejudicies. I know they are wrong and I have to battle them every day. So does everyone else (have to battle their flaws and prejudices).

Brian,

If you read the papers, you will remember that there were ALOT of Hollywood people who were against that movie.

I am sorry if the word 'liberal' offends you, but I could think of no other word to describe those in Hollywood (whether they are few or many, I cannot say) who have an agenda against organized religion and its beliefs. They do exist and I have a Christian Orthodox friend who was in the industry that heard it with her own ears.

If you can think of a better, more PC word, please share it.

I don't think that Mel Gibson's words were necessarily anti-Semetic, and this comes from a person (in other words: me) who is a great supporter of the state of Israel, and a great friend of the Jewish people.

Many people get frustrated over things they cannot change (like wars) and throw blame. I am sorry, but epithets, stereotypes and generalizations about people are thrown around towards ethnic groups all the time behind closed doors. That does not mean that it is Christian, or that it is nice, polite, or the right thing to do, but it also does not mean that the person doing it is necessarily an enemy of that people.

If that were so, as an American I should hide my neck in the sand and never be seen abroad because everyone is my enemy. You cannot imagine the type of things that are said about Americans in other countries.

I appreciate sensitivity and charity, but I think that we need to stop being so excessively politically correct. (ie: It is okay to be angry at this or that group, but not this or that other group).

He without sin, cast the first stone....

Regards,
Alice

You know sometimes people just say dumb things that they don't mean. Today at Assumption UGCC a parishoner asked me if I was Ukrainian Catholic and I replied "No, I'm just a regular Catholic."

I didn't mean it that way and I'm not sure why I said it. I'm really embarassed that I said it and wish I could take it back.

I ask for forgiveness.

I'm sorry but it is not politically correct to be against anti-semitism and if you read the man's comments, they were anti-semitic. I don't how you cannot see that, frankly. Things such as the question "are you a Jew" repeated over and over.
No, liberal does not offend me. I am politically liberal and it is an honorable political tradition in both the US and the UK.

Dear Brian,

Please hear the comedian (Rabbi) Jackie Mason in an interview which is linked on another thread here. Perhaps *he*, as a Jew and a Rabbi, can put a greater perspective on this for you.

In the end, however, people will believe what they want to believe. I want to believe that Mel Gibson, a person who is friends with many, many Jews, is not an anti-Semite. I don't think that a man who could produce the type of sacred movie that he did, could possibly hate that much. Father Jonathon Morris of Fox News, who knows him personally, and worked with him on the movie, backs this up in the article he wrote and which I posted here a couple of days ago.

As I have gotten older and hopefully, more spiritually wise, I have learned not to look so negatively and judgementally upon people that may not agree with me, or do things or say things the way I would. I look at the good side of people first now. I have come to realize that we all have sides of our personalities that are capable of great good and sides that may not be so good. I remember that I am chief sinner, and that others are better than me. I remember what the memorial chant says for the departed: for no man lives and sinneth not, for You God, are only without sin. This world is transitory, but death and our eternal lives are eternal. All the agendas and judgements of this world are nothing but vanity. Our souls and following our Lord's commandments and the Church's teachings are much more important things....

If you still want to believe that Mel Gibson is a hateful anti-Semite, then please believe it. This is a free country, a free forum, and therefore, it is your choice and your opinion.

Love in Christ,
Alice