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Forgiving Mel Gibson
by Father Jonathan Morris

August 2, 2006

Perspective is important, particularly when celebrities are involved. That is why I have let a few days pass before getting out my pen. I was determined not to let my friendship with Mel distort my opinion of what happened last Friday and what it might mean.

Mel Gibson�s early morning arrest for suspected DUI, accompanied by his verbal tirade, has created quite the buzz for Hollywood reporters � and rightly so. Mel himself has called his drunken comments vitriolic and despicable, a shame to himself and to his family, and contrary to his faith. Newsworthy, I would say.

But let�s remember what �buzz� is. It�s viral-like gossip about what might be. In this case, the buzz in the newspapers, television, and particularly on the web has turned from what might have happened (Mel was quick to confirm the reports), to what the incident might mean.

Abraham Foxman, president of the Anti-Defamation League, was keen to push the envelope in these suppositions.

�His tirade finally reveals his true self and shows that his protestations during the debate over his film 'The Passion of the Christ,' that he is such a tolerant, loving person, were a sham. This confirms what all of us knew before, Mel Gibson is an anti-Semite and a bigot.�

Big words.

For over a year, I worked with Mel and his team during the filming, post-production, and marketing of "The Passion of the Christ." I sat with him in his on-set trailer, reviewed clips with him in the studio, discussed the script with him over the phone and in his Santa Monica offices, and planned pre-screenings of the movie for critics and opinion-makers all over Europe.

Now, Mel and I don�t agree on everything, not even about some aspects of theology. His traditionalist view of Catholicism is different than mine. Because of our differences, I was careful to get a few things straight before agreeing to work on "The Passion." I wanted to hear directly from him about his opinion of the Jews, in particular whether they could be blamed collectively � as a race or religion � for the killing of Jesus. Aware also of the accusations in the media regarding his apparent denial or minimalization of the Holocaust, I was intent on setting straight this part of his record.

Mel�s response to both of my inquiries over an extended period of time, in word and in action, was unequivocal. I knew then, as I know now, Mel is not an anti-Semite.

Also big words.

I speak confidently and unambiguously, because my experience in working on "The Passion" taught me something else about Mel. While some people are willing to put on facades and give a good �spin� to save face and a career, Mel Gibson cannot. He is painfully honest and incapable of writing or approving a public relations piece in which he does not believe whole-heartedly.

I saw this scrupulous conscious at work in his response to every false accusation of bigotry leveled at him in the months preceding the release of "The Passion." Many people wanted him to make sweeping public statements about religion, theology, and history � just to make sure he wasn�t a bigot. Instead, he focused his attention on producing a film about the greatest love story of all time, free from bigotry and in no way anti-Semitic. The world saw for itself a reflection of Mel�s soul.

On Monday Mel wrote a letter to the Jewish community. He requested forgiveness and asked Jewish community leaders for help in working toward long-term reconciliation. Much to his credit, Abraham Foxman responded graciously.

I was impressed.

Yesterday, on FOX News Radio with Spencer Hughes, I applauded Mr. Foxman for his nobility in having accepted Mel�s apology. Today, however, I was surprised to see Mr. Foxman�s op-ed in the New York Post which calls into question Mel�s sincerity:

"I'm still skeptical because these are still words from his handlers � the same people who brought you the first statement that didn't acknowledge his anti-Semitism. I'd like to hear from the man himself. These words are still from his handlers � Mel Gibson's words in the police blotter, we know those are from him."

If Mr. Foxman thinks Mel�s handlers wrote and distributed the statement without Mel�s full consent, he doesn�t know Mel Gibson. To ask for yet another apology is out of place and, in my opinion, reflects badly on the organization Mr. Foxman represents.

Mel�s deplorable comments came from somewhere. In his inebriated state, he revealed what was on his mind in a given moment. Together with Mel, I condemn his statements about Jewish people and say they are not true. But I praise him for what is on his mind now, in cold and reflective sobriety, as expressed in his first apology and his subsequent letter to the Jewish community.

Now is a time for forgiveness. Mel has asked for it. We should give it.

God bless, Father Jonathan
-------------------------------------------------
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his actions in follow up to this horrid incident will speak louder then his words

This is not surprising in the least...before The Passion of the Christ was finished and released he was already judged and condemned by many...

He is no different any of us...we all have some problems of various natures...

james

Gibson: [My father] writes books about canon law and Catholicism.
Playboy: Have you read them?
Gibson: Yeah. He is pretty sound canonically and theologically. He's a bookish guy. Uses words I've never heard of.
Playboy: What does he have to do with the Alliance for Catholic Tradition, which one magazine called "an extreme conservative Catholic splinter group"?
Gibson: He started it. Some people say it's extreme, but it emphasizes what the institution was and where it's going. Everything he was taught to believe was taken from him in the Sixties with this renewal Vatican Council. The whole institution became unrecognizable to him, so he writes about it.

Playboy Interview, (July, 1995).

I do not respect anyone who has anything to do with playboy magazine. Especially if they try to make Christian films 10 yeas later.

Most popular actors in films and television seem to be eccentric and mentally disordered. They may be charismatic and talented in entertaining but they dont have much coherent logic in the rest of there lives. I wash my hands of all of it.

God help rehabilitation centers and AA meetings of the world.

People make mistakes. I believe in forgiveness. Obviously talking to PLayboy magazine was against better judgement but I believe that maybe Mr. Gibson has matured a little over the years. I still have respect for him.

-Katie g

What Mel Gibson said was rediculous. Certainly the Jews were not the cause of all the wars in the world or we would have to thank them for the U.S.A. :rolleyes: :p :rolleyes: :p :rolleyes:

Zenovia

Criostoir,

Ever do anything that you were ashamed of? If so, aren't you glad it is not a matter of public record for you and your children, friends and family, and the whole world to see?

In interviews about the movie "The Passion of the Christ" Mel indicated that this movie was made as an expression of repentance for his sins (some of which are chronicled in his earlier movies). In the scene in which Christ is nailed to the cross, Mel made sure that it was his hand that held the nails.

Jesus did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance. Anyone who has struggled with chemical dependency knows the power that such an addiction can have.

To quote the Rule of St. Benedict, "begin again."

Gordo

I hope that Mr. Gibson gets the help he needs.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/8/4/131230.shtml?s=ic

I think it was the liquor talking. I've seen that happen to many other people, and what was said shouldn't be taken seriously. As for being anti-semitic, many Jews are not even Semites. I would even say that some Jews can be anti-semitic. I hope Gibson gets the help he needs and gets the drinking under control.

Mel Gibson as an actor must talk and give interviews all over the place. He does this as promotion of his products, is part of his main source of income. Hollywood is as we know all smoke and mirrors. He would be guided by a good firm of people who work to market his image and right now would be working in overdrive to salvage his name and keep him marketable. Lets not get like those folk who get actors professional lives mixed up with the real world. He was drunk and said what he said. It tends to suggest that when uninhibited by alcohol he came out with his real views of Jews and the world. Alcohol in excess tends to do that to people. Spin doctors are now working very hard to represent an image that is and was making lots of money for him and them.

To my mind, what has been witnessed speaks more about the power of chemical dependency than about any latent anti-semitism on the part of Mel Gibson.

People get drunk and say and do things out of character all the time. With that said, not everyone gets drunk and makes anti-semitic statements.

I will only point out that Mel Gibson was literally RAKED over the coals unjustly just a few years ago by many, many Jewish spokesmen for "The Passion of the Christ"...they cried anti-Semitism at specific aspects ofthe films that are recorded in the Christian Gospels! We are also currently involved in wars to protect US and Israeli interests...wars that some (including the Servant of God, Pope John Paul of blessed memory and Pope Benedict) consider unjust and immoral. Israel's Zionist history of the treatment of Palestinians is not exactly a shining and righteous example of justice either, and while I might not argue for moral equivalency with the PLO/Hamas and Israel, there is allot of blame to go around for the Middle Eastern tinderbox. (Just read Melkite Archbishop Elias Chacour's "Blood Brothers" for a different perspective on these matters.)

SOOOooooo....yes, given Mel's personal and very public experience of unjust persecution at the hands of certain outspoken Jews (he was also defended by a few as well, including Miochael Medved), plus the war and some of his upbringing, perhaps it was buried somewhere deep in his mind.

But thought does not constitute action and everything that anyone who knows him has said indicates that this man is not anti-semitic.

Shame on some of those conservative pundits I have been listening to lately who have joined the "dump on Mel" crowd over this. I think their grandstanding on this issue is a way of ingratiating themselves to an otherwise unsympathetic audience by saying "Hey that's not me! I'm not so immoral as to make statements like that."

Give me a break. The man was d-r-u-n-k.

End of tirade.

Gordo

or "In Vino Veritas" I suspect that is more accurate

If he had been drunk and just mumbled we would not have this thread.

He made statements and asked pointed questions that were reported as racist.

Drunk he may have been but he had enough on his mind to know how to try and insult a policeman doing his duty.

There are no doubt there are some who are pleased to see him in this mess. This will also be the cover required to have a go at other issues under the guise of how shocked they are he said what he said and did what he did.

Poor Mel the American-Australian actor will ride this through. Tall poppies get taken to all the time. If he had been Mel the average bloke we would not know or care. Pray for him as one would for all unfortunates and hope he learns from this and his family are not made to suffer for his stupitidy.

Another good article on the Mel-situation...and from the LA Times no less.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-gibson4aug04,1,1409910.story?coll=la-headlines-entnews&ctrack=1&cset=true

Gordo

Let's put things in perspective.Mel Gibson was driving under the influence which is bad enough in itself, and I certainly don't defend his words.BUT, at the same time,a Moslem in Seattle recently gunned down one Jewish women while wounding others, yet the media gave this far less coverage than the Gibson story.I bet if a Caucasian policeman harrassed a Moslem even slightly, the news would be all over that.

Father,

Respectfully, I don't think it is a question of whether a Muslim did this or a Christian did that, the remarks and actions of Mel Gibson (under the influence or not) were indefensible anti-Semitism. I don't care if it was a Muslim or a Buddhist who make such statements, they are wrong.
I really don't believe that Mel is being unfairly "victimized"

The incident of last weekend is indeed a cause of embarassment to Mel Gibson and his family. It is, as an arrest, a matter of public record and accordingly publicized since Mr. Gibson is a public person and the media has judged it newsworthy. The part of this sorry drama that I find objectionable is the call for Gibson to be banned from Hollywood which emanate from the same crowd who whine so sanctimoniously about the blacklisting the occurred during the McCarthey era.

Mr Gibson ceased to be hot stuff ages ago in Hollywood and that is why his production company as been producing it's own work for a while now. What was the last film he was in? Mad max was ages ago.

Pavel said:

The Mad Max series was quite a long time ago, but I believe it was made in Australia rather than Hollywood. (I may in fact be wrong about this.) However, Gibson has made quite a few very profitable Hollywood films, including the Lethal Weapon series, Braveheart, What Women Want, etc. The man is clearly gifted as actor, director and producer.

However, he does appear to have a number of tragic flaws:

• Substance abuse;
• Anti-semitism. While the network news has not covered it to my knowledge, Inside Edition recently went more into his religious background. Gibson's father is definitely anti-semitic (denies much of the Holocaust happened), and Mel no doubt absorbed this while growing up. Yes, he was drunk, but yet the saying goes: In wino veritas.
• An extremely vituperative and profane mouth.

Gibson is also a complex man, and in his defense, he has condemned stem cell research and built numerous houses for the poor in Mexico during the filming of his newest movie Apocalyptica.

Sophia

Hollywood the business, as distict from the suburb, conducts it's business all over the world and various governments fall over themselves in encouraging Hollywood to do more that just make films in their states, or countries. Brisbane and Sydney are but 2 of such cities where there are huge studios and support facilities for the use of the film industry from the USA who have invested much $$$.

The point was made that there were those grandstanding in connection with his present problem, saying that they would not do busiess with them (they probably never did before, but it a way of getting ones name in the papers). The point was made elsewhere that he was already having difficulties in that area, which he got around by setting up his own production company.

Dont excuse the drunk and blame the vino. He said what was on his mind (which is reported to have been quiet a bit). Vino only loosend the tounge and uninhibited him.

Here's the reflection that has moved me more than all the others combined. I recommend Fr. Kimel's thoughts on his blog at Pontifications http://catholica.pontifications.net/

"I will withhold moral judgment. A person�s authentic character is not disclosed while �under the influence� nor is a person defined by his inner demons against which he struggles and from which he seeks deliverance and healing.

I have never read Charles Taylor�s Sources of the Self, but I suspect that this book might shed some light on this very modern response to the inebriated anti-Semitism of Mel Gibson.

Personally, I believe that the public response to Gibson�s alcoholic tirade is far more interesting, and revelatory, than the tirade itself. That we now identify the person with his inner subjectivity, feelings, and appetites is one of our critical social problems and is a source of moral confusion and chaos, not least in the area of sexual morality."

I had thought I was pretty good at separating the person from their inner demons. Theoretically I could see that a person struggling with this or that sin was different from the sin with which they struggle. I've argued this case over many many issues and thought I had had it settled concerning alcoholism. But I had not completely done so. Father's article has helped me in my theosis and has helped me more deeply love my mother who was an alcoholic.

My mother was a person made in God's image who struggled with alcohol. My friend, RV, was a person made in God's image who struggled with homosexual temptations and died too early of Aides. Mel Gibson is a person made in God's image who struggles with alcohol. You and I are people made in God's image who struggle with many sins. God through His Son redeems the humble before Him.

God is good.

CDL

Dear Pavel,

You make an interesting point about that actually being what was on Mel Gibson's mind. Perhaps it was. You are also right about alcohol loosening the tongue.

Let's think of it this way: Who among us has not atleast thought something generalized about a nationality of people or members of a religion? If one has a run in with, let's say, for argument's sake--a Greek, and thinks to himself: xxx fill in the blank w/a non-expletive adjective xxx Greeks, does that REALLY mean that they are 'anti-Hellene'? (Infact, people of an ethnic or religious background often condemn each other on these very same generalizations)!!

Does that mean that the person will hate and revile every person he meets of that nationality? I don't really think so.

I think that the media is making too big a deal about this, and I think that the true reason that they are having a field day with it is because he has deeply offended Hollywood liberals and athiests by having made 'The Passion of the Christ'.

In Christ,
Alice

You are correct! The politically correct would be all over that in a flash.

Alice,

i think it would be a mistake to vear from the person who made the vile remarks themselves (and they truly were anti-Semitic and not just innocent prejudice about a nation like the Greeks) and make this into part of the Hollywood "agenda" whatever that is or something cooked up by "liberals" Also, there are political liberals on this Forum too In my opinion, that would be a case of blaming the victim.

I read a column in The American Spectator Online, written by a lawyer, about the Mel Gibson situation.

He pointed out that, if being drunk really brought out the truth, that nobody should ever be allowed on the witness stand unless he or she is "bombed".

So, I don't buy the "in vino veritas". I Gibson were truly an anti-Semite, he would not have lasted in Hollywood as long as he has.

I make no excuse for his comments. I would like to point out that if not for the success of The Passion of The Christ, which was produced, directed and distributed outside of Hollywood channels, nobody would much care what Mel Gibson says, does or how much he drinks.

Gibson is a deeply flawed person. I have my own flaws and prejudicies. I know they are wrong and I have to battle them every day. So does everyone else (have to battle their flaws and prejudices).

Brian,

If you read the papers, you will remember that there were ALOT of Hollywood people who were against that movie.

I am sorry if the word 'liberal' offends you, but I could think of no other word to describe those in Hollywood (whether they are few or many, I cannot say) who have an agenda against organized religion and its beliefs. They do exist and I have a Christian Orthodox friend who was in the industry that heard it with her own ears.

If you can think of a better, more PC word, please share it.

I don't think that Mel Gibson's words were necessarily anti-Semetic, and this comes from a person (in other words: me) who is a great supporter of the state of Israel, and a great friend of the Jewish people.

Many people get frustrated over things they cannot change (like wars) and throw blame. I am sorry, but epithets, stereotypes and generalizations about people are thrown around towards ethnic groups all the time behind closed doors. That does not mean that it is Christian, or that it is nice, polite, or the right thing to do, but it also does not mean that the person doing it is necessarily an enemy of that people.

If that were so, as an American I should hide my neck in the sand and never be seen abroad because everyone is my enemy. You cannot imagine the type of things that are said about Americans in other countries.

I appreciate sensitivity and charity, but I think that we need to stop being so excessively politically correct. (ie: It is okay to be angry at this or that group, but not this or that other group).

He without sin, cast the first stone....

Regards,
Alice

You know sometimes people just say dumb things that they don't mean. Today at Assumption UGCC a parishoner asked me if I was Ukrainian Catholic and I replied "No, I'm just a regular Catholic."

I didn't mean it that way and I'm not sure why I said it. I'm really embarassed that I said it and wish I could take it back.

I ask for forgiveness.

I'm sorry but it is not politically correct to be against anti-semitism and if you read the man's comments, they were anti-semitic. I don't how you cannot see that, frankly. Things such as the question "are you a Jew" repeated over and over.
No, liberal does not offend me. I am politically liberal and it is an honorable political tradition in both the US and the UK.

Dear Brian,

Please hear the comedian (Rabbi) Jackie Mason in an interview which is linked on another thread here. Perhaps *he*, as a Jew and a Rabbi, can put a greater perspective on this for you.

In the end, however, people will believe what they want to believe. I want to believe that Mel Gibson, a person who is friends with many, many Jews, is not an anti-Semite. I don't think that a man who could produce the type of sacred movie that he did, could possibly hate that much. Father Jonathon Morris of Fox News, who knows him personally, and worked with him on the movie, backs this up in the article he wrote and which I posted here a couple of days ago.

As I have gotten older and hopefully, more spiritually wise, I have learned not to look so negatively and judgementally upon people that may not agree with me, or do things or say things the way I would. I look at the good side of people first now. I have come to realize that we all have sides of our personalities that are capable of great good and sides that may not be so good. I remember that I am chief sinner, and that others are better than me. I remember what the memorial chant says for the departed: for no man lives and sinneth not, for You God, are only without sin. This world is transitory, but death and our eternal lives are eternal. All the agendas and judgements of this world are nothing but vanity. Our souls and following our Lord's commandments and the Church's teachings are much more important things....

If you still want to believe that Mel Gibson is a hateful anti-Semite, then please believe it. This is a free country, a free forum, and therefore, it is your choice and your opinion.

Love in Christ,
Alice

Alice,

We do not disagree about the need for Christian forgiveness. Despite our MANY differences, we do agree on that. I just hope that Mr gibson's actions match the words of his apology as we all have been called to repentance.

What I don't understand is why the man's potential subjective philosophical and ideological leanings are being discussed so much when there is plenty of concrete evidence to discuss about the man. He drinks to the point of alcoholism (which apparently is no secret in Hollywood), he smokes like a chimney (not exactly in moderation), he has a foul mouth, he has his own chapel outside of the Catholic diocese, he has plenty of "demons" in the public eye that don't need to be debated. He has presented himself as a devout Catholic Christian man and his words and actions are now causing scandal because of it. Fr. Al said in this or another thread if he had not been a Christian, this would not be in the news. I agree. These are things he is supposed to be against. Likewise, if a moderate Muslim made a well-grossing movie about ecumenism with Christians and the shared faith in God, etc, then went out and said the same drunken speech about Christians, it would have been on the news. I agree with those who are sympathetic to a man who is fighting with his personal demons and whose every word and action is documented just waiting for a moment like this. But something very similar happened to Billy Graham which I just read about in an article linked from here. Mr. Graham was sober at the time and horrified by his own words. How he handled himself (at least according to the article) and how Mr. Gibson chooses to conduct himself in the coming days and months are indicative of their character.

It seems that Mel Gibson, and all of us, can learn something from this very public incident without condemning the man himself or arguing over what our subjective take on what his drunken words could indicate about his sobered mind. I'm much more inclined to see what he does with himself. Prayers for his discernment and his family's strength.

Dear Brian,

From reading this forum, I think that there are others who have many more differences with you than I do. I believe that you and I only basically disagree on one topic.

With love in Christ,
Alice

I think a lot of people here ought to be ashamed of themselves insinuating that I'm too hard on mel gibson. I don't support anyone who does playboy interviews I dont care if it's the Pope themself.

Playboy and Catholicism dont mix anyone who thinks otherwise is a very lost soul themself, what is the world coming to when people won't even stand up to Hugh Heffner on a Catholic forum! Hollywood is nuts and you ought to realize it and ignore the morons because they're nothing but trouble makers.

I've had to deal with mental ill behavior my whole life and people like this never change they just ..they are hopeless ...
hopeless..ignore Hollywood altogether. Read books. Put on your own plays but stop being fed by greedy wacky hollywood and all it's pornography related people. Rupert Murdoch owns myspace.com

Confession being good for the soul, I must admit that I have not even set eyes on Playboy magazine for so many decades that I probably would not recognize it today. [I do, however, remember Bishop Fulton Sheen's delightful definition of the Playboy Club: "a (house of ill repute) with no second floor"!]

So, not being a reader of that publication, I really don't have much of an opinion of anything that appears in it.

Fr. Serge

I think we tend to forget just exactly what Mel Gibson went through when making the movie "The Passion of the Christ". He suffered much! I heard one Rabbi condemn the movie continuously before it was released. Movie houses were pressured not to show it, etc. etc. In other words, Mel was being forced not to make it. I don't find pressure of any kind on one's free speech, comendable...especially when it concerns our faith.

Mel Gibson's family was also harrassed, and he did not know from one moment to the next whether he would survive financially. Outside of the public pressure because the movie was considered anti-Semetic, he had many demonic occurences on the movie set that ran the cost up quite a bit. I believe that a Mass was said every morning for protection before shooting.

Now considering the black listing of the film by certain Hollywood Jews, I don't know why we 'Christians' did not run out and start screaming about how anti-Christian the Hollywood Jews were...and as we all know, the one's criticising the movie were Jews.

So can we blame Mel for having a few hang-ups about the Jews? Uhhh! I think he's still ostracized by the movie biggies. That though does not make one anti-semitic in my mind. It merely makes one dislike those that are hurting him. :rolleyes:

Of course that doesn't excuse his other behavior, but then he's not a saint, he just made a movie about Jesus...sufferred a great deal for having the courage to do it, and that's more than we can say.

Zenovia

I am not criticising unfairly either. I've never done a playboy interview after all or anything bad as that.. I am pro-life.

I do believe we can blame Mr Gibson for having "hang ups" about the Jews and it was not the effect of his particular film being criticized. His father was an Anti-Semite and Mel grew up in a household which had those views (views that were condemned by the Catholic Church for centuries) Certainly he has the intelligence to think for himself and break away from that kind of upbringing and it's hatefulness. From his statements, it seems that he has not. That is very sad.

Anti-Semitic? Has Mel Gibson said something nasty about Christian Arabs?

Fr. Serge

Dear Brian you posted the following:

I say:

I guess then we can accept what certain Jews were saying about the film 'The Passion of the Christ'...that it was produced by Mel Gibson because he was anti-semitic, with the intent to arouse those feelings in people.

Too bad you feel that way. I rather liked the film.

Zenovia

Dear Father Serge you said:

I say:

Yeah! Mel Gibson doesn't like me either. Part of me comes from a Greek island, and I'm sure they were part Semitic.

Then again, I'm almost positive I have some Jewish blood there somewhere...and proud of it.

Zenovia

I do not think that you or anyone else is capable to judge what is in Gibson's mind.

We all know Gibson's father denies the Holocaust and that Gibson is part of a schismatic church.

Gibson apologized. I am willing to accept that. If Gibson considers himself to be a Catholic, schismatic or not, he knows he cannot hate Jews.
Jesus was born a Jew. His mother is a Jew.
What burns me up far more are the Hollywood types, and othere so-called entertainers, who make the Catholic Church a target for their biases and hatred.

Well, Father, he did cast a vote of no confidence when he failed to consider recruiting Western-Aramaic-speaking Syrians from Ma`loula for his film.

Now that is truly sad, and no joking. I've been to Ma'alula myself and served Divine Liturgy in the ancient monastic Greek-Catholic church there (as well as visiting the lovely Greek Orthodox monastery of Saint Thecla). The involvement of anthentic Christian, Greek-Catholic native speakers of Aramaic would have added a worthwhile elment to the film.

But we are Christians, and must forgive. Better yet would be for Mel Gibson to visit Ma'alula and make a film about the remarkable survival of this Christian, Catholic Aramaic-speaking community from the time of the Apostles Peter and Paul.

That could assist in overcoming the serious bigotry against Semitic Christians which we find in the West.

Fr. Serge

How nice of you to have come and visited and how worthwhile for you I'm certain. You celebrated in Mar Sarkis'? That must have been a rich experience. I presume you arrived and stopped by Said Naya as well.

I agree, and Ma'loula looks strikingly similar to the old, rocky mountainside Italian village that was used for the film setting. It is a pity that there was too much an American tone in Mr. Caviezel's Aramaic. Had a native of Ma'loula been able to exercise the same degree of talent in acting -- physical acting expecially, which was incredibly well done -- as Mr. Caviezel, it wouldn't have been bad at all to have let him play the main role.

Also noteworthy and remarkable is that the people of this village (and two neighbouring ones that have a Muslim majority) are the only surviving ones who speak Western Aramaic (today's surviving dialects influenced by Arabic) rather than Eastern, Syriac (NOT Christ's language as Suryanis might like to say)-influenced dialects, and thus speak what belongs to the general family of Aramaic languages to which Christ's belonged. Fascinatingly enough, these people who speak the closest there is today to Christ's tongue are Byzantines rather than Suryanis.

With much sorrow in saying so, most of what is reported about the village nowadays concerns the threat of extinction the language is currently facing. It is a worrying matter.

True, and the presence of a village of Muslim Aramaic speakers such as Bakh`a would also offer an interesting perspective for outsiders.

In fact, Father, the area I hail from, the Qalamoon region, was traditionally one of Aramaic-speakers who continued to perpetuate the use of the language and continued preserving it a good time after Syrians of the surrounding areas adopted Arabic as a primary language. My village, though its inhabitants speak only Arabic, maintains its historical connexion with the Aramaic patrimony that belongs to the region as a whole.

I would pity anyone that would have taken Mr. Caviezel's part in the movie. The horrors he had to endure were unbelievable.

What annoyed me though in the film, and many a Greek speaking person, was that Greek was neither written nor spoken. Greek was not shown in the sign on the cross stating 'King of the Jews', nor did Pontius Pilate speak in Greek. Now Greek had to be the language that Pilate used when he spoke to Jesus.

Zenovia

In addition, Ma'alula is the only Greek-Catholic parish in all the world where Aramaic is still in use for a notable part of the divine services. There's a nice audio-tape available of the "Funeral of Christ" service of Good Friday evening sung by the villagers in Aramaic using Byzantine chant (before anyone gets confused, please remember that "Byzantine chant" does not refer to the system of church singing of whatever one cares to call the place at the meething-point of Hungary, Slovakia and Ukraine). Very enjoyable!

One of the problems with keeping the language alive is that the Syrian government does not permit the teaching of Aramaic in the school in Ma'alula - don't ask me why; I don't know. In general I quite like Syria, but this bit of cultural repression is a black mark on Syria; we could all do a lot worse than to write the Syrian Embassy at the UN asking politely that this restriction be lifted, stressing the cultural importance of the survival of Aramaic as a living language, especially for Christians.

Meanwhile, a ritzy-glitzy hotel has been built adjacent to Mar Sarkis - deplorable in general but at least it shows that Damascus is conscious of the importance of Ma'alula and can be reminded that much of that importance comes from the language.

Sam: I was last in Lebanon for that canon law conference in Kashlik about 10 years ago, and managed to build a week in Damascus into my itinerary, including a day-trip to Mar Sarkis (in my case the attraction to Ma'alula was the connection with Saint Serge). As you gather, the visit turned out to be lovely and a valuable experience. Damascus is, well, Damascus - a beautiful city with remarkably hospitable people. I keep hoping to return someday before I die.

Zenovia - you are quite right; the blotting-out of Greek is one of the major weaknesses of that otherwise excellent film.

Abuna Sarkis (aka Fr. Serge)

Interesting. I had not even considered the idea. But, now that you mention it, it is obvious.

-- John

Zenovia,

There are many who wonder about koine greek not being spoken in the film. Lest we forget that ALL of the New Testament was written in koine greek (except possibly the Gospel According to St. Matthew which has been theorized to have been written in Aramaic.) So actually the whole movie should have been in koine greek as it was the lingua franca of the whole Mediterranean world thanks to Alexander the Great. And this allowed the spread of the Gospel throughout the region (when the fullness of time had come...)

I guess since Latin and Aramaic are dead languages (which after reading some of the exchanges, it turns out to not be true entirely) Mr. Gibson wanted to make a film that could be universal. Remember that originally he was dead set against subtitles. He wanted to rely on the images that were allusions to famous paintings and on our understanding of the Holy Scriptures.

The suggestion that he could have used people from Lebanon??? who spoke a dialect which is the closest to the dialect that Our Lord spoke is a great one. The plus would be that Mr. Caviezel's eyes would not have had to be altered. Sometimes they looked too artificial as his eye color is blue.

Not that I didn't "enjoy" his performance in the movie.

I do wonder whether this could be Syriac as the churches use classical languages and not strictly the vernacular (this being the case even where Syriacs of the Syriac Church speak Eastern neo-Aramaic vernaculars), and the Aramaic spoken in the Aramaic three of Reef Dimashq has no Fushah (classical) counterpart. But then again, Syriac has nothing to do with the Byzantine churches or what the Ma'loulans speak. So I wonder what is used exactly.



What we would call 'real' Byzantine chant, read using the Byzantine system of notation (unfortunately abandoned in favour of the Russian, polyphonic sound at least by the older Antiochian Orthodox and Melchite parishes in the diaspora), not exactly identical to Greek in sound, but still in the same musical sphere as opposed to sounding 'Slavic' (the modern, Western and Baroque-influenced form; I personally prefer the more ancient, Byzantine-sounding Slavic chants, from Znamenny to mediaeval Serbian). Still, I have to commend the Russians and their kin on one thing: the utilisation of massive basso profondo in effecting the ison, the essential substratum to any decent-sounding Byzantine chant.

No longer the case.

I understand that thanks to Professor George Risqallah, who helped to make possible that celebration of the Good Friday service in Aramaic, we have an Aramaic institute in Ma'loula, the foundation stone being laid about 2 years ago, I believe. I also understand that over the years prior, the professor had been teaching Aramaic classes in the village and had been strongly appealing to the government and advocating for concentrated efforts to preserve the language. And surprise of surprises, Father, if a Bahraini source referenced by the Ministry of Tourism is to be believed, it would appear that Mel Gibson was in fact over there studying for six months before filming his production. (Another source says he was considering a special screening at Jub`adeen.) Apparently, the success of his film has further galvanised the government into taking some initiative and dedicating funds to efforts at teaching the language.

On the matter of the language's dwindling state, what should be kept in mind is that the village preserved its language thus far largely due to its relative isolation. In addition, remember that the spoken language does not have a written form which limits its being able to be taught as effectively as doing so within the setting of the home and by growing up within the community, and is very limited in its vocabulary to be able to be used in a manner that is satisfactory within the context of modern speech for this century. The phenomenon of emigration from the villages towards the major cities, which goes back to before my generation, is also a major factor to be considered; their language has no use outside of the village community. From the other direction, I also hear that there are Arabic-speakers who immigrate to Ma'loula.

The older hotel with which I am familiar is what was called (if the name has been changed since new management took over) the Safeer, located at the summit. A relation of mine used to manage it.

As for the government, the ministry of tourism likes to boast of Ma'loula and its Aramaic; they know it has the potential to sell well.

Thank you, Father. One should have seen Damascus as it was decades ago, before the Barada river had dried up and when the city could boast of much greenery. Unfortunately for those who remember, what Damascus amounts to today is a jungle of concrete. But the old city and old neighbourhoods full of narrow streets, as well as the general atmosphere still encourage visits.

Samer

P.S. Father, if I may trouble you, I would enjoy listening to a copy of that Good Friday recording if you have it with you. May I request from you a copy on cassette? I would be much obliged; I would be happy to P.M. you with my snail mail address. I'll gladly reciprocate with a copy of the Liturgy chanted in Arabic by the Orthodox choir of Mt. Lebanon. I'll admit that Say'yidna George has the best Byzantine choir in this country, and Fr. Pandeleimon has a strong voice that nicely enhances the quality of the liturgical service.

And as you called to attention the difference between Slavic Byzantine and Levantine Byzantine chant, do know that this same Mt. Lebanon choir has recently completed the recording project of chanting the Divine Liturgy in English -- in authentic Byzantine tones, just like the Arabic. From the audio samples available on the following website, it seems to be a very successful accomplishment on their part, and I can add that this is exactly how Byzantine chant in English should sound in the churches of the diaspora that do not follow the Slavic traditions. You can listen to said samples (I recommend the Resurrectional Troparion and the Cherubic Hymn) and purchase a copy for yourself here:

http://www.kelfar.net/orthodoxiaradio/
http://www.kelfar.net/orthodoxiaradio/Catalog/CD_Eng1.html

Habibi - that tape is somewhere in the house; if I can find it I'll make you a copy (although you could probably get one sooner from Ma'alula or even from the Greek-Catholic Patriarchate in Damascus).

Reducing the Aramaic of Ma'alula to written form would be child's play to anyone who knows the alphabet and is patient enough to become acuainted with the specific vocabuly used in the village. The villagers were already proud of their language ten years ago; they are presumably even prouder of it now. For that matter, it's possible to write Aramaic with Arabic characters (Syrian Karshuni?), although learning the Aramaic alphabet shouldn't be that much of a challenge.

Delighted to hear of the Institute - you're motivating me to visit Damascus again (if so, perhaps we can meet).

Abuna Sarkis (aka Fr. Serge - by the way, I used to know an Armenian aquatic cat named Sarkis)

I just have to mention something here. Yesterday I heard a tape of the most amazing chanting...I'm picky you know. I was mesmorized by his voice. It seems the chanter is a Canadian and he chanted in English. The tape is called 'Byzantine Music In The New World'...Vespers Vol. I

I often wonder what billionare lebanese like Carlos Slim Helu (2nd richest man in the world, 44 billion $) and billionare armenians like Kirk Kekorian do with all their money. I know Kirk has paid for half the roads in Armenia but I still think there is more they could do such as promoting aramaic preservation in a more effective way. With the right amount of money and incentives languages are easy to preserve!
Perhaps lower taxes for aramaic speakers ...they could start a whole planned aramaic speaking city just like Tom Monoaghan is trying to do in Florida next to Ave Maria University.

Ancient Chants of the Eastern Orthodox Church sung in English for the first time by the world-renowned Mount Lebanon Choir. <--stunningly beautiful cd, the nearly whole reason I goto to Melkite/Antiochian Churches is to sing this music.

I also prefer the more ancient syriac/greek chant to any russian baroque/modern western types myself.

Although Corsican Chant is my favourite at the moment..no ones probably ever heard of that..especially in the authentic form with byzantine type tones.

Babara Ghazarians uncle was named Sarkis..do the aquatic cats make nice pets? most people dont believe that cats can ever like water.

Re: Corsican chant and Byzantine tones, you listen to Marcel Peres' Ensemble Organum, don't you? Good taste on your part. He enjoys employing the ison in Western chant to highlight the Eastern influence on the ancient forms of ecclesiastical music of various Western rites. His recordings of Mozarabic, ancient Roman chant, and Ambrosian are highly recommended. The last features Melchite Sr. Marie Keyrouz singing in high register. Simon Karas' student, Lycourgos Angelopoulos, also contributes his voice to these projects, and is consulted by Marcel during work on them.

My friend with the Armenian aquatic cats (he has two, but I've forgotten the other one's name) told me several things, the first of which is that many of his guests could not believe that these cats liked to swim until he filled his bathtub and allowed the guests to watch the cats paddling away.

They're quite beautiful cats. Unfortunately they're also very expensive, and I believe the exporting of them from Turkey is severely restricted. Whether they are available from Armenia nowadays, I don't know.

Constantinople has lots of stray cats, but I've never noticed the aquatic kind [there's a large fish market near the Greek-Catholic church, and it's possible to have one of several informal restaurants cook fresh fish to order. The cats hang around these places, earning their keep by discouraging the rodents, and meanwhile soliciting bits of fish from the customers].

Fr. Serge

I was going to start a whole post about Ensemble Organum soon..because they keep me confused..I can not figure out if they are authentic or have an "eastern agenda" and want to hellenize/syriacize latins like myself. I personally would welcome this hellenization...But I dont think enough other Roman Catholics would. This link is where I downloaded the Corsican Chant from..I think it's illegal but...why hasnt Marcel shut it down yet?

http://www.romancatholicism.org/chant/chant.htm

I would like to encourage breeding of van cats. It might be an extra source of income for me. My brother and I enjoy cats very much. I am sure I can find some here to start mating.

The most surprising thing to me is that stray cats exist in Constantinopoulos. I would think someone would eat them..

My mother has made jokes her whole life about singing in lebanon that all they ever sing is "ya habibi"...like american rock "baby baby I love you"...ehehehe

Strange page: reflects in a good way something of my musical taste, and it even has the link to the very same page I know of that offers audio samples of Serbian mediaeval. And if that weren't bizarre enough, there are my translations of Arabic Melchite Nativity chants tacked onto the fellow's site.

Music over here has deteriorated in much the same way as Greek music has: into the domain of vapid laika and talentless, music-video oriented nonsense, except I think the Lebanese have outdone the Greeks with Haifa Wehbe's 'Wawa'. What is termed music nowadays is exclusively about show right now.

Habeebee goes back a long way, but the word today is tossed about too frequently.

<I would think someone would eat them.>

If an anecdote of suspect veracity from Jerusalem demonstrates anything, they will sell well and make good, tasty sandwiches as long as no one asks what they're buying. Someone allegedly had to close up shop when the local cat population suddenly experienced a suspiciously sharp drop.

A Christoir - if you can really find authentic Lake Van aquatic cats and breed them true, prepare yourself to make money - the demand outstrips the supply

Fr. Serge