www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Forgiving Mel Gibson

Alice,

We do not disagree about the need for Christian forgiveness. Despite our MANY differences, we do agree on that. I just hope that Mr gibson's actions match the words of his apology as we all have been called to repentance.

What I don't understand is why the man's potential subjective philosophical and ideological leanings are being discussed so much when there is plenty of concrete evidence to discuss about the man. He drinks to the point of alcoholism (which apparently is no secret in Hollywood), he smokes like a chimney (not exactly in moderation), he has a foul mouth, he has his own chapel outside of the Catholic diocese, he has plenty of "demons" in the public eye that don't need to be debated. He has presented himself as a devout Catholic Christian man and his words and actions are now causing scandal because of it. Fr. Al said in this or another thread if he had not been a Christian, this would not be in the news. I agree. These are things he is supposed to be against. Likewise, if a moderate Muslim made a well-grossing movie about ecumenism with Christians and the shared faith in God, etc, then went out and said the same drunken speech about Christians, it would have been on the news. I agree with those who are sympathetic to a man who is fighting with his personal demons and whose every word and action is documented just waiting for a moment like this. But something very similar happened to Billy Graham which I just read about in an article linked from here. Mr. Graham was sober at the time and horrified by his own words. How he handled himself (at least according to the article) and how Mr. Gibson chooses to conduct himself in the coming days and months are indicative of their character.

It seems that Mel Gibson, and all of us, can learn something from this very public incident without condemning the man himself or arguing over what our subjective take on what his drunken words could indicate about his sobered mind. I'm much more inclined to see what he does with himself. Prayers for his discernment and his family's strength.

Dear Brian,

From reading this forum, I think that there are others who have many more differences with you than I do. I believe that you and I only basically disagree on one topic.

With love in Christ,
Alice

I think a lot of people here ought to be ashamed of themselves insinuating that I'm too hard on mel gibson. I don't support anyone who does playboy interviews I dont care if it's the Pope themself.

Playboy and Catholicism dont mix anyone who thinks otherwise is a very lost soul themself, what is the world coming to when people won't even stand up to Hugh Heffner on a Catholic forum! Hollywood is nuts and you ought to realize it and ignore the morons because they're nothing but trouble makers.

I've had to deal with mental ill behavior my whole life and people like this never change they just ..they are hopeless ...
hopeless..ignore Hollywood altogether. Read books. Put on your own plays but stop being fed by greedy wacky hollywood and all it's pornography related people. Rupert Murdoch owns myspace.com

Confession being good for the soul, I must admit that I have not even set eyes on Playboy magazine for so many decades that I probably would not recognize it today. [I do, however, remember Bishop Fulton Sheen's delightful definition of the Playboy Club: "a (house of ill repute) with no second floor"!]

So, not being a reader of that publication, I really don't have much of an opinion of anything that appears in it.

Fr. Serge

I think we tend to forget just exactly what Mel Gibson went through when making the movie "The Passion of the Christ". He suffered much! I heard one Rabbi condemn the movie continuously before it was released. Movie houses were pressured not to show it, etc. etc. In other words, Mel was being forced not to make it. I don't find pressure of any kind on one's free speech, comendable...especially when it concerns our faith.

Mel Gibson's family was also harrassed, and he did not know from one moment to the next whether he would survive financially. Outside of the public pressure because the movie was considered anti-Semetic, he had many demonic occurences on the movie set that ran the cost up quite a bit. I believe that a Mass was said every morning for protection before shooting.

Now considering the black listing of the film by certain Hollywood Jews, I don't know why we 'Christians' did not run out and start screaming about how anti-Christian the Hollywood Jews were...and as we all know, the one's criticising the movie were Jews.

So can we blame Mel for having a few hang-ups about the Jews? Uhhh! I think he's still ostracized by the movie biggies. That though does not make one anti-semitic in my mind. It merely makes one dislike those that are hurting him. :rolleyes:

Of course that doesn't excuse his other behavior, but then he's not a saint, he just made a movie about Jesus...sufferred a great deal for having the courage to do it, and that's more than we can say.

Zenovia

I am not criticising unfairly either. I've never done a playboy interview after all or anything bad as that.. I am pro-life.

I do believe we can blame Mr Gibson for having "hang ups" about the Jews and it was not the effect of his particular film being criticized. His father was an Anti-Semite and Mel grew up in a household which had those views (views that were condemned by the Catholic Church for centuries) Certainly he has the intelligence to think for himself and break away from that kind of upbringing and it's hatefulness. From his statements, it seems that he has not. That is very sad.

Anti-Semitic? Has Mel Gibson said something nasty about Christian Arabs?

Fr. Serge

Dear Brian you posted the following:

I say:

I guess then we can accept what certain Jews were saying about the film 'The Passion of the Christ'...that it was produced by Mel Gibson because he was anti-semitic, with the intent to arouse those feelings in people.

Too bad you feel that way. I rather liked the film.

Zenovia

Dear Father Serge you said:

I say:

Yeah! Mel Gibson doesn't like me either. Part of me comes from a Greek island, and I'm sure they were part Semitic.

Then again, I'm almost positive I have some Jewish blood there somewhere...and proud of it.

Zenovia

I do not think that you or anyone else is capable to judge what is in Gibson's mind.

We all know Gibson's father denies the Holocaust and that Gibson is part of a schismatic church.

Gibson apologized. I am willing to accept that. If Gibson considers himself to be a Catholic, schismatic or not, he knows he cannot hate Jews.
Jesus was born a Jew. His mother is a Jew.
What burns me up far more are the Hollywood types, and othere so-called entertainers, who make the Catholic Church a target for their biases and hatred.

Well, Father, he did cast a vote of no confidence when he failed to consider recruiting Western-Aramaic-speaking Syrians from Ma`loula for his film.

Now that is truly sad, and no joking. I've been to Ma'alula myself and served Divine Liturgy in the ancient monastic Greek-Catholic church there (as well as visiting the lovely Greek Orthodox monastery of Saint Thecla). The involvement of anthentic Christian, Greek-Catholic native speakers of Aramaic would have added a worthwhile elment to the film.

But we are Christians, and must forgive. Better yet would be for Mel Gibson to visit Ma'alula and make a film about the remarkable survival of this Christian, Catholic Aramaic-speaking community from the time of the Apostles Peter and Paul.

That could assist in overcoming the serious bigotry against Semitic Christians which we find in the West.

Fr. Serge

How nice of you to have come and visited and how worthwhile for you I'm certain. You celebrated in Mar Sarkis'? That must have been a rich experience. I presume you arrived and stopped by Said Naya as well.

I agree, and Ma'loula looks strikingly similar to the old, rocky mountainside Italian village that was used for the film setting. It is a pity that there was too much an American tone in Mr. Caviezel's Aramaic. Had a native of Ma'loula been able to exercise the same degree of talent in acting -- physical acting expecially, which was incredibly well done -- as Mr. Caviezel, it wouldn't have been bad at all to have let him play the main role.

Also noteworthy and remarkable is that the people of this village (and two neighbouring ones that have a Muslim majority) are the only surviving ones who speak Western Aramaic (today's surviving dialects influenced by Arabic) rather than Eastern, Syriac (NOT Christ's language as Suryanis might like to say)-influenced dialects, and thus speak what belongs to the general family of Aramaic languages to which Christ's belonged. Fascinatingly enough, these people who speak the closest there is today to Christ's tongue are Byzantines rather than Suryanis.

With much sorrow in saying so, most of what is reported about the village nowadays concerns the threat of extinction the language is currently facing. It is a worrying matter.

True, and the presence of a village of Muslim Aramaic speakers such as Bakh`a would also offer an interesting perspective for outsiders.

In fact, Father, the area I hail from, the Qalamoon region, was traditionally one of Aramaic-speakers who continued to perpetuate the use of the language and continued preserving it a good time after Syrians of the surrounding areas adopted Arabic as a primary language. My village, though its inhabitants speak only Arabic, maintains its historical connexion with the Aramaic patrimony that belongs to the region as a whole.