www.byzcath.org Forums Why married priests won't solve the vocation shortage

Father Thomas,

I appreciate the opportunity! I'll start out with just three questions:

1. What are some of the things that you do to maintain the balance (and the boundaries) of your obligations to your family and your parish?

2. How do you manage the "fishbowl" aspects of parish life for your kids? (I am assuming that you have children...)

3. Do you think priesthood is a better "second career" or "vocation" than to start out in your first years of marriage as a priest?

I'd really appreciate getting your perspectives on this!

As to thirdpew's rantings on this topic (I love the "ex cathedra" quip!), I worked as a parochial school teacher for a few years and was paid as if I was celibate! (I was the sole breadwinner for my family.) I imagine that the pay for a priest is nothing close the level of a corporate salary, but I know that on my meager earnings of $14,5k a year, we had a roof over our heads and food on the table. We were dressed by Goodwill, mind you, and we did not have insurance except through the state, but we were happy and poor.

I imagine that the vocation to priesthood as a married man involves some elements of sacrifice for the whole family. But aren't there opportunities to supplement income, such as talks, writing, teaching, etc. etc.? I knew a Romanian Orthodox priest who worked in Human Resources FT and served his parish PT. Not ideal, but he was able to make it work. (His congreagtion was very small - something I think should be the model for most EC parishes, quite frankly. Small, dynamic mission posts - and everywhere!) And he was such a good and holy priest, with a beautiful and supportive young bride. I really appreciated my frequent visits with him and his church.

Anyway, I look forward to your thoughts!

Peace,

Gordo

1. Although when we were first married, the priesthood was not in the plans, I was working at an Antiochian church as a full time pastoral assistant, choir director and youth coordinator. I was ordained to the priesthood five years ago.

My family knows that my obligations to the parish can many times put them in second place. If, for instance, someone died, and I was at my daughter's birthday party, I would have to leave, and go to be with the dying person's family, and say the appropriate prayers. However, people in the parish also understand that I have a family, and they are very respectful of that. Let's say someone is taken to the hospital. Unless they are truly dying, there is no reason for me to "rush" to see them. I can go when it is convenient for me and/or them. So, it goes on a situational basis. My family understands, and so does my parish.

2. I have three daughters. They are still a bit young to appreciate the ramifications of being a PK (priest's kid). Having grown up as one, it was basically "the way it was." There are also many joys to being a PK. I did not feel particularly in a "fish bowl" although I know now that I was, and that I still am as a priest. I try and give my kids as normal as a life as possible, but many times, we also have to stand up for what is proper - today the battleground is soccer - that means, no soccer on Sundays or playing for teams that play on Sundays or when there is regularly scheduled services. This can be a problem, but any parent can make that decision, not just a priest's family.

3. The issue of priesthood as "second career" is in flux. First, I would never understand the priesthood as a "side job." I wlll be very honest with the list and tell you that I have a secular job, as well as a decent size Orthodox parish (we have about 150 adults). My parish has rarely, if ever, suffered because of my secular career. This arrangement was blessed by my bishop and agreed to by the parish when I first arrived five years ago. I am quick to point out that I did not take a vow of poverty, and I will not subject my family to that, simply because God has called me to be a priest. People do, in fact, understand that. They too, want to provide the best they can for their families. Actually, one of the big factors in all of it is health insurance. Smaller parishes simply cannot afford a realistic full time salary and health insurance for a family. So they have to be understanding also, if they want a priest.

Now, honestly, it is not easy. I am soon to be 42 years old, and it gets more and more difficult every year. On top of that, I truly believe that parishes should be afforded every opportunity to have a rich liturgical life. This lent, our parish has services every day. And the miracle of it all is that I travel somewhat in my secular position, but my current secular job has been somewhat supportive in trying to keep me at home, especially during the lenten season. I am very appreciative of their understanding.

In my previous secular position, I had carte blanche to come and go as I pleased. I would take hospital calls during the day if I had to without question from my employer.

As to how it all works, it is different in every sitaution. Today, I am at work at 7 am, will be here until 4, I have Daily Vespers at 5, and will be home by 6 pm. Yesterday, same schedule and we had Presanctified Liturgy. I was home by 8 pm. Of course, my family was at Presanctified. But, keep in mind that many people in the parish are also dealing with full time carreers, families, etc... And I expect them to be in church!

Most parishioners of working age are also working during the day anyway, so it is rare that they can do anything during working hours. Our morning services are poorly attended, but our evening and weekend services are well attended. We might get 7 people for a morning Liturgy, but 30 for Saturday evening Vespers. Last night for Presanctified we had 45 people. Our Sunday attendance averages between 110-120. We've been getting about 10 people for the Daily Vepsers during Lent, and I'm thrilled with that.

But, specifically to the question, do I consider my priesthood to be a "side job"? Absolutely not! If the time comes when the parish can support me and my family with a realistic full time package (and I am certainly not complaining!) I would discuss it with my wife and we could see how we can make it all work out. For now, I look for employers that will be supportive as they can of my situation, and hope that I can make it all work. So far, so good.

It is not an ideal situation, but it is one that benefits the parish, in that they can have a priest that wants to be there, and wants to see and help the parish grow, and my family is still financially supported within the framework that we have decided to live.

I hope this somewhat answers your question. I will be as honest as I can with you - but I want no one to question my fidelity to the church, or my commitment to Christ and to see the Church grow, simply because I have to provide for my family. I can and will do both if I have to.

Priest Thomas

Dear Father Thomas,

That was a most beautiful, heartfelt and honest post. Thank you. We are fortunate to have you here.

I wish that all Orthodox priests, especially in my jurisdiction, where many are very fortunate to be well taken care of, were as committed to serving Christ through the Church as you are. Ironically, in my jurisdiction, it is those priests that struggle to take care of their families, and who accept that struggle as part of their vocation and commitment to the Holy Priesthood, that are our best and most spiritually grounded priests.

May God bless you and your family with every grace, blessing, and protection throughout your lives and throughout your ministry!

Kissing your right hand,
Alice

"God has created us so we do small things with great love. I believe in that great love, that comes, or should comes from our heart, should start at home: with my family, my neighbors across the street, those right next door. And this love should then reach everyone."

St. Teresa of Calcutta


Dear Father Thomas, BLESS US! I want to join Alice in thanking you for your post. As one who also works full-time (with single HIV/AIDS mothers) I also know how very difficult it is to carry out one's responsibilities as a priest (and, in my case a monastic) when, by necessity we must work to support ourselves and our families/communities. Let me simply say, that although your/our situation is not ideal...you and priests like you are a constant inspiration to me and an example to everyone of just the kind of dedication and life-style that St. Paul himself lived and that more and more priests will be required to live in the future. Hey, at least our people can't say that we're lazy huh? May He continue to give us health and strength to live and work for Him and His Body, the Church!

Most Holy Mother of God, 'Queen of Apostles,' assist all your bishops and priests to continue to be deeply dedicated to your Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ and His Holy Gospel!

Kissing your holy right hand!

Your poor brother in the Lord,
+Gregory, priestmonk

Fr. Gregory,

Christ is in our midst!

Alice,

May the Lord God bless you!

There has been a certain blessing in all of it, to be sure. My situation is definitely not the ideal, and I know that my parish suffers because of it. I am not an exemplary priest, in any way, I assure you. But I do love Christ, and His Church, and I want to see her grow and prosper. I want to do the right thing, even though many times, I have not done that. But He is a merciful and saving God and quick to be with sinners, of whom I am the first.

May God give all His priests the strength to endure what the day brings, and the courage to truly bring Christ to their flocks.

Priest Thomas
St. Nicholas Orthodox Church [stnicholas-oca.org]

Father Thomas,

Thank you so much for your openness on this! It is a beautiful witness to your kenosis as faithful servant of Christ!

One point of clarification: When I referred to the idea of a priestly vocation as a "second career", I meant as a second career for someone who has retired - not as a "second job"! My apologies if I was not clear on this.

Many years,

Gordo

Regarding those who are retired to take the priesthood as a late vocation, I think this *can* work and *may* work, depending on the parish. I believe that the Catholic church apparently is looking at this as a solution to the priest shortage. I really think it depends on the person. My own father came out of retirement to take my current parish some 17 years ago. He literally saved it from complete loss, and today the parish is thriving in a rather difficult area. It was his vision for the future of the parish that gave them stability. However, he had been a priest for some 40 years at that point, and I'm not sure a "new" priest, regardless of age, would have been able to do that. However, admittedly, older men would bring years of real-world experience and patience, something that is sometimes lacking in younger priests. So it's certainly something to think about. It would also have to be considered from an educational standpoint. The late vocations program in our Archdiocese takes five years to complete, so a retired man may not want to make that kind of commitment. It's an interesting idea, though.

Priest Thomas