The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Regf2, SomeInquirer, Wee Shuggie, Bodhi Zaffa, anaxios2022
5,881 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 190 guests, and 19 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Byzantine Nebraska
Byzantine Nebraska
by orthodoxsinner2, December 11
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,219
Posts415,295
Members5,881
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
#20294 01/26/05 12:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,708
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,708
Quote
I tend to disagree with you when you say that the Greeks used sexuality in order to foster closeness between men.
I am afraid that is exactly what they did. Spartan soldiers were paired for life with a companion who was friend, lover, brother, fellow soldier, etc. It was felt that they would fight even harder to protect each other, which they did.

#20295 01/26/05 01:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
Please stop hijacking a topic on the Holy Shroud of Turin into a forum on the pros and cons of homosexuality.
Stephanos I

I would suggest if you want to discuss the morality/immorality of homosexuality you set up another topic.

#20296 01/26/05 03:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,708
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,708
Well, if you want to get hostile about it, I am merely replying to a post concerning Greek paranoia and denial about parts of their early history. I don't see any pros or cons being advanced about homosexuality, so there. :p
Now about the shroud. Whether it is holy or not has been a matter of debate for some time. Some say it is holy, others that it is a fraud. But I am looking at a book titled "New Light on the Passion of Our Divine Lord," by Rev. Patrick O'Connell, published 1955. He mentions the Holy Face of Edessa as similar to the image on the shroud, pollen samples, showings of the shroud by Emperors in Constantinople between 1171 and 1203, how the shroud came into possession of the House of Savoy, and analysis of the blood stains. So I am not sure there is much in the way of new evidence that hasn't been mentioned before. He even references studies that are much older than his own, and they essentially come to the same conclusion, that the shroud is genuine. Of course, there was the infamous carbon 14 test, but how reliable is that method of dating for something that has been in a fire, as was the shroud? I do remember an archaeology professor saying some years ago that his opinion was that being in a fire would ruin samples for carbon 14 dating. Any corroboration of that from other Forumites?

#20297 01/26/05 03:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,440
Z
Member
Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,440
Quote
I am afraid that is exactly what they did. Spartan soldiers were paired for life with a companion who was
friend, lover, brother, fellow soldier, etc. It was felt that they would fight even harder to protect each
other, which they did.
Dear Stephanos,

I am not hijacking this forum on the pro's and con's of homosexuality. I am merely trying to explain that people of different cultures and times, are exactly that. People of different cultures and times.

As an example, if I recall correctly, our World War II soldiers also fought quite well to protect their buddies. As for the Spartans, they fought for their state, and nothing else. As one Greek rightly put it, considering the way they lived and ate, death was preferable.

To understand them better, one has to remember that their mothers would say, either come back with your shield, or on it. In other words, victorious or dead. That was quite similar to the Greek mothers of the more modern times of the Greek revolution. A bedtime song consisted of telling her son, how he will grow up, fight and die, in order to free his country.

You know it's strange how people will always assume something without really knowing. I recall reading that the Germans encouraged homosexuality in the army, yet the group of Nazi's that were homosexual, were slaughtered by Hitler for exactly that reason. Quite a contradiction!

The problem Stephanos, is that my first language was Greek. I recall their passions, their attitudes, etc. The culture is way different than ours, no matter how well their English, and nuances...or at least it was.

Everyone today speaks fluent English, and copies our ways in certain aspects, and we are deceived into believing they think like us. They don't, unless they attended a school outside of their country before the age of 21, or lived in another culture. But of course, my opinion goes back a few generations. Things have changed quite a bit.

What happens is that we tend to read things in others, that really do not exist. For example, I was watching an old Charlie Chaplin movie, and in it he was fond of an orphan boy and went out of his way to hold on to him. Surprisingly, for our day and age, Charlie Chaplin kept kissing him on the mouth. Now today, he would be considered a pervert.

Another example: In the Brothers Karamasov, a woman's affection towards another women, for giving her back the person she loved, was shown by embracing her and kissing her on the mouth...

As I stated, the concept of men loving young men, in the same way as they loved women was prevalent in Ancient Greece. So prevalent, that the Corinthian women were told to walk around naked so as to attract men. But it was not, as one would say, homosexuality as it is perceived today.

One thing we Americans have to accept, is that we are way off base when we assume other cultures were or are similar to our own. If I read Gibbons correctly, the ancient Greeks, with the exception of Athens in the age of Pericles, was basically the same as modern Greece. They did not speak, think, nor act like Americans or Englishmen.

Zenovia

#20298 01/26/05 06:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
Here is a question, especially to Ray.
Has anyone thought of the "Primus Sepultura" theory about the Shroud?
"It was about noon and darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon, because of an eclipse of the sun." Isn't it interesting that even the natural forces so to say could not bear to see the innocent Lamb of God suffer and so to say hid the event by darkness.
"Now there was a irtuos and righteous man named Joseph who. though he was a member pf tje council, had not consented to their action. He came from the Jewish town of Arimathea and was awaiting the Kingdom of God. He went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. After he had taken the body down, he wrapped it in a linen cloth and laid him in a rock hewn tomb in which no one had yet been buried. "It was the day of preparation,and the sabbath was about to begin." The women who had come from Galilee with him followed behind, and when his body was laid in it., they returned and prepared spices and perfumed oils. Then they rested on the sabbath according to the commandment.
Luke 23:44-56.

Since it was the day of preparation and already after three (plus the time for Joseph to go to Pilate and return) they would have had to do a Primus Sepultura and retuned after to burry him according to Jewish custom.

Stephanos I

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Father Anthony 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2022 (Forum 1998-2022). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5