www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News SHROUD OF TURIN NEWS!

New Chemical Testing Points to Anci...oud of Turin Used Invalid Rewoven Sample [biz.yahoo.com]

This is great news! If this is true and the Shroud is real then this is what Jesus Christ looked like:

[Linked Image]

Did you ever see the special on it, can't remember discovery or history channel. This one guy believes it was done using a camera obscura, the forerunner of modern photography and he can make them and they have the same properties...
Who knows, these great living mysteries are awesome.

Dear Ray,

Of course the Shroud of Turin is real. It's amazing all the theories that can be found to disprove something...especially if it pertains to Christianity. Frankly, how in the world can someone in the Middle Ages, make a negative of a face...and then again, if someone did, at that time and age, he would have been burned for witchcraft.

As for the history channel, it amazes me how they can twist everything. The last time I watched it, I was appalled at how an obvious 'homosexual' was being portrayed as Alexander the Great. Can you imagine an army following him?

Zenovia

What I find amazing is that any historical event would be accepted on much less authority, and with fewer witnesses than most of the events related to Christ and Christianity. If the same number of witnesses saw any event as saw the resurrected Christ, it would be proclaimed as fact. But since we are talking about Christ, of course it is pious imagining and can't be genuine.

Just was on a retreat this week at a Cistercian monastery and picked up a book on the Shroud of Turin. Will share it later.
Stephanos I

I always believe the Shroud was real. Thats what prompted me to go into archaeology as a career. (No work in it now.)

We, as Byzantine Catholics are more aware of the Shroud's ancient origin. Ever see the icon/mosaic of the Christ Procrantor? The wisp of hair, the big eyes, the fold on the neck, etc. Where did they get those features in the 4th-9th cent. if the Shroud is a forgery of the Middle Ages?

Also, the images is 3 dimentional. How can someone duplicate that? Also, there are traces of pollen on it from plants that grow only in the Middle East. But of course a forgeror would have known that.

Another interesting point that the Holy Coat (the seamless garment) in Trier, the Holy Napkin (in Ovieto, Spain), and the Shroud have blood stains and they are all have the same blood type. Explain that!!

In ancient Greece, yes, I can imagine an army following him. Have you ever studied ancient Greek pottery? Under today's laws, you couldn't send that stuff through the mail.

You are right about that. Homosexuality was an accepted part of pre-Christian Greek culture. This is not Greek bashing, it's historical fact, and is neither slur nor slander against modern Greeks. It also seems fairly widespread in late pagan Roman culture, as well.

I never believed in carbon-dating. I think it's all basically a hog-wash.

I mean, HOW in the world are we able to measure the age of the world when it's not measurable?

Just like you can't get a temperature reading in outer space because therometer is actually a measurement of heat whereas there's no heat to be measured in space?

I really don't believe that the world is like 500 billion years old or whatever that number is. COME ON!

How can one standardize an age of the earth when there were no one on earth during the Creation to record it?

Silly.

I'm glad to hear of this, it's indeed good news.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Dear Mike,

Actually, the ancient Greeks, and their more modern ones, as well as the Turks, and parts of the Middle East, have different concepts of what is and what isn't homosexuality. The Greeks liked boys as well as girls. These men were not then, nor are they now considered homosexual. Frankly, they are pagans, (past and present) and simply immoral. Homosexuality to the Macedonian Greeks meant being effiminate in every way. It was looked down on.

Alexander the Great had a harem, and children. He married Roxanne because he was obviously in love with her, (she was the most beautiful girl in Persia), and he might, or might not have loved his friend Ephaestion. It seems doubtful to me that he did, but some historians cannot figure out any other reason as to why Alexander trusted him.

The movie portraying Alexander as a homosexual in our modern sense, was considered an insult, not only to the Greeks, but to the Egyptians as well. They know their history a little better.

As for our Orthodox Church, Alexander is perceived as part of God's plan. It was his conquests of the Eastern world, that gave Greece what is now considered Hellenic culture. The New Testament was written in the Greek of the Hellenic era, and that is the Greek that Saint Paul, as well as the whole Mediteranean world spoke.

Alexander planted towns and cities werever he went: Alexandria, Alexandretta, Kandahar, etc., to name a few. He unified the world so that Christianity could be spread.

Zenovia

Dear Mike,

So that's where they are. Always wondered where they disappeared to.

Is the Holy Napkin in Ovieto what is referred to as the 'matilla' in Greek, or Veronica, with Christ's face imprinted on it? I know that it's portrayed on many icons, and no Greek seems to know what happened to it.

What kind of blood did Jesus have? To me it has to be the 'bluest' in the world.

Zenovia

From what I have been reading it is AB. All the three relics match as to the same blood type, the Shroud, the Saudarium in Oviedo, and the robe in Trier.
It would be an unusual coincedence if they were not the same person. Another point is that the blood is male, they have isolated both the X and the Y Chromosone.
Stephanos I

Have you seen the movie? Does it really portray Alexander as only a homosexual, or perhaps it portrays him as the Greeks were, bisexual, who used sexual intercourse as a means of fostering closeness amongst men and boys?

I really do wonder what an "obvious" homosexual is, too. Because I've seen the most effeminate looking and acting men living far more Christian and heterosexual lives than most of the gay men I know, who are quite masculine looking.

Dear Zenovia,

Thank you for that wonderful post with your insights on the life of Alexander!

I always carry a medallion of Alexander with me together with the Star of Vergina.

I think they're, well, great . . .

Alexander was a reflection of his times. That doesn't make him a homosexual.

That charge is simply a nasty rap.

Alex

Dear Mikey,

Actually, you are right as far as effiminate goes. It means nothing. Homosexuality is really a moral problem. What I meant to say, is someone assuming a female role in a relationship.

I tend to disagree with you when you say that the Greeks used sexuality in order to foster closeness between men. If I recall correctly, the sly remarks and comments I heard many years ago from Greeks, (no doubt with a limited sense of morality), showed a desire to satisfy their sexual urges, as well as the desire to degrade others in more or less the same way as they do in prisons today. Of course they also like pretty boys. I believe it was a Roman that followed the Greek fashion, and paid what would probably be equivalent to $200,000, for a slave boy he liked.

I have to assume, these Greeks of the recent past,(as well as the Turks, etc), do not fall too far from their notorious ancestry.

If we consider what was done to the Arabs in the Abu Ghraib prison, and how it was considered the utmost insult, I think you will understand my point.

As for the movie, no I haven't seen it yet, and I'm dying to. I read the book on his life, with the hope I'll be able to follow it more thoroughly.

Actually the Greek lawyers that were going to sue Oliver Stone, withdrew the suit. It did not portray him in the way they assumed...yet my grandson felt quite the opposite when he saw it. But then he might have been influenced by the press.

My beef is with the way the History channel portrayed him. But then again, that's the History channel

Zenovia