www.byzcath.org Forums How should we die?

It would seem that our vocation as a Church is to die. That's what enticed me to join. But how are we to die? Our mission is to help unite the two wayward parents (or are they our children?) When that is accomplished we cease to exist as a separate entity. In other words we die to give new life. Does that mean we should passively go out into the night carrying no responsibility toward our mission, like we seem to be doing now? Or does it mean bold leadership which will cause our death and new life in the field of spiritual battle?

I think the answer is obvious but will hopefully cause some self examination.

CDL

How should we die? single choice

Shall we continue passively on and die never to rise again? (8%, 2 Votes)

Shall we die putting every effort into evangelization in the hope of new life? (92%, 22 Votes)

Total Votes: 24 Voting on this poll ends: 12/03/22 11:32 PM

Brother Daniel, in Christ,

I cannot understand this:

If we are in Church and Church is Christ, I think that the word "to die" had to be explained.

Regarding the Byzantine-Catholic Church, whose particular features from USA or Ukraine or so I do not know, I am confident and faithful in our Lord Jesus Christ that she will thrive, being a key for reunification. There are a few keys more, I believe.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy upon us all. Amin!

In Risen Christ, Marian

Marian,

We are to die as in cease to exist as a separate entity apart from Orthodoxy. Some day when reunification comes we will continue to be "Orthodox in Communion with Rome" but will cease to exist as a separate entity. There will be a follow up series of questions.

CDL

Well, someone wants us to die out without accomplishing anything. Interesting. Probably a shot at my rhetorical question.

CDL

Dan, your poll and your thread are poorly conceived. The Church isn't about death: it's about life. Christ came to give us life, life in abundance.

As for the Eastern Catholic Churches, I don't think our mission is solely or even mostly to serve the reunion of Catholics and Orthodox. I think our mission is to live that reunion: now, already, by theosis.

As for the future, I leave that in Christ's hands.

-- John

John,

Yes, that is good. However, as a separate organization our destiny is to die. We are dying. Will it be to bring about life or will we just cease to exist. It may be poorly worded but the vision I bought into when I converted was that we are working toward our own martyrdom for the sake of the unified Church. For better or worse that it the nature of my conversion. I happily accept it.

CDL

CDL,

I am also disturbed by the wording of your poll. I don't think death is the right word to use. I think if you are talking about what should be done before the merger with the Orthodox Mother Churches, then as I posted on the poll (to paraphrase St. Ignatius of Loyola) work like everything depends on us and pray like everything depends on God to get more people into our Temples. Keep praying for reunion and keep evangelizing.

God Bless You,

Dr. Eric

Use whatever wording works for you. I like the Traditional wording myself. It doesn't allow me to sugar coat reality.

CDL

It seems clear from the poll that virtually everyone does not wish to see us die out of existence never have fought for the purpose we are here. Let us then stand up and be counted. Let us become martyrs for our Lord. Let us promote the Gospel of truth and of unity with our brothers and sisters both East and West. Let us get involved. Someday we shall no longer be separated from either Roman Catholics or Eastern Orthodox. Let us ever work diligently toward that end. Get involved with the renewal of the mission for which we exist.

CDL

Dan - you are preaching to the converted here.

But there is no one fit all solution.

I'm sure that all of us here on Byzcath are doing what we can in our local community to spread the word.

Our Lady,

No offense meant. It's just that we've lost 2/3 of our membership over the last 20 years and there seems to be very little vision to change that trend. I'm hoping that following our statement of passion for our Church we will together find new ways to cooperate with the Spirit to pursue our mission and to encourage our hierarchs. Hope springs eternal.

CDL

These are exciting times. God is with us.

The Church has shrunk alot, and will likely shrink more due to a high percentage of older parishioners, but...

Things are turning. Those who are left are hungry for faith and strong in it. We love our Church and are not letting her die. I have seen great strides forward in many places. (unfortunately not everywhere) We will grow. (and in many places we have started) God is being glorified.

"Undulation" (sp?) Like a pendulum at the end of its swing, it may seem like we have stalled, but perhaps we are just switching directions.

As a note: several clergy in my Eparchy, including myself, are putting a small presentation together for the other clergy in our eparchy about our vision for the Church. There is movement. It may be too slow for most of us eager types (I often get very frustrated too),but we are moving forward!

If only we could put a fire under some of the "non-eager types" especially among the clergy, then things would turn around sooner. But... things are turning.

God is with us.

Fr. Bo

Dan-

I know you're trying to be a gadfly here, but still I also must object to the way the post is worded. The vocation of any Byzantine-rite church in union of Rome is NOT to die. It is to seek the kingdom of God in a way taught by a certain great religious culture.

Even if there's reunion with the Orthodox, these Churches will not die. I don't believe there's any Orthodox jurisdiction for the Eparchy of Mukachevo to merge into, is there? Who are the BCC eparchies in the US going to be merged into? The OCA? ACROD? The Kyivan Churches? Moscow? Hasn't the "Ruthenian tradition" been distinct for at least the past 6-700 years? Moving to a UGCC, how will a united Kyivan Church in union with Rome, Constantinople, and Moscow be the death of the UGCC? It sounds more like the fulfillment of its "megali idea" to borrow from recent Greek history. Even on my Melkite side, reunion doesn't mean death at all. It means and end to a nearly 300-year split in our Patriarchate, and re-union with the Greek Church and the EP. I'm puzzled by the idea that any of this is "death".

If your point is that "our parishes are dying because only old people go to them", I cannot say I agree even though I'm not part of any BCC parish. My parish is neither perfect nor do hundreds join per week. Nevertheless, we do OK. This particular forum is full of ideas that we can use to help build our parishes.

Most importantly, however, I think we must first seek the Kingdom of God and then all else will be added to us. Why do we worship God? What do we do to commend ourselves and one another and our whole lives to Christ-god"? What's distinctive about our religious tradition that helps us in this? And how can any of this be considered dying?

As a seed.

CDL

I ain't dyin' till the good Lord calls me: hopefully with my boots on and my chotki in my hand !

-- John