www.byzcath.org Forums THE DEDICATED MORMONS?

We have all seen the dedicated and well dressed Mormons coming to our neighborhood trying to reach us lost souls. Recently they came to our door and I politely said I wasn't interested, of course the 5x7 icon that adorns the wall next to the door became the topic of-here we go: idol worship, I explained icons to them! I was asked if I knew what "Christ's atonement" meant? I let them tell me and what my son and I got out of it is, once Christ was on the cross and rose from the dead, all "our sins are atoned for forever!" At this point I asked them, "Does this mean I can sin and I'm guaranteed to get through the pearly gates of Heaven without St. Peter telling me I can't come in? If he says that to me young men, I will have to pick the lock!" Please I am not making light of this not intending it as a joke, I told them repeatedly that I am a Byzantine Catholic, at that point I was "told" my faith is "heresy!" I was shocked and asked both young men what they knew of the Byzantine Catholic Church, they replied, "Nothing!" It is hard to be humble when you meet someone who knows nothing of your faith and then tells you that you are a "heretic!" I guess BYU in Utah is really desperate these days! I wished both young men well on their journey, I also informed them that the Mormon faith is their faith and it is not mine, nor would it ever be! This also brings to mind the Jehovah's Witness who told me that Jesus never received bithday gifts! I don't know what Bible these well meaning people read, but as a boy, I read and still read of the Gifts of the Magi-would this not fall under birthday gifts even though the Bible doesn't specifially say or state "birthday?"

they are closer to Islam than to Christianity.

I guess many men will fall in the trap when "God's messenger" permits 4 wives ... (mormons and islam share the same point)


happened to me once with another group, and i decided after a 45 minutes talk that Jesus- like always - was RIGHT when He said:
" Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you." Matthew 7:6

I usually tell Mormons that God was never so hard up for prophets that he needed to use Joseph Smith. Also, that the man was such a rogue that he never even came close to credibility.

as one who spent a good part of his youth as a Mormon, I am intrigued by the posts.
Much Love,
Jonn

The Mormons hold to a blasphemous doctrine called "eternal progression" - God was once a man (just like Adam - created by "another" God) and climbed the celestial corporate ladder to "become" the one we know as God. Blatant polytheism. One has to work really, really hard to become the Almighty -but it's possible by following the steps of - tah dah - Mormon teaching (who would have guessed?) - which explains much of the "clean cut" image and dedication. Talk about ambitious! They are getting ready to rule their own world and create their own Adam/Eve in their own section of the universe, etc. Wow - someone call the sci-fi channel for a new mini-series (pardon my silliness). Eternal progression is also a perversion of a correct understanding of theosis / sanctification. Often cults use similar words and mean something totally different. Beware beloved! They preach another gospel and another Jesus.

The following Scriptures plainly refute their teaching - God is "� from everlasting to everlasting �". (Psalm 90:1-2)

Thus says the LORD, Israel's King and redeemer, the LORD of hosts: I am the first and I am the last; there is no God but me. (Isa. 44:6 NAB)

I am the LORD and there is no other, there is no God besides me. It is I who arm you, though you know me not, so that toward the rising and the setting of the sun men may know that there is none besides me. I am the LORD, there is no other; I form the light, and create the darkness, I make well-being and create woe; I, the LORD, do all these things. (Isa 45 5-6 NAB)


By the way, there are many resources available on how to witness to Mormons.
Here's one at EWTN:
http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/camorm3.htm


Years ago, my wife and I dialogued with Mormon missionaries and concentrated on refuting this key teaching (eternal progression). I was snared in a similar religious cult years prior to this (Worldwide Church of God / Armstrongism) and after being delivered from it, the Lord gave me a heart to reach out to others likewise ensnared. Warning! Not everyone may be called to this type of outreach. I've talked to Jehovah's witnesses who identified themselves as "ex-Catholics"; they were tripped up by the arguments of the cultists who recruited them. One must be ready for a spiritual battle - because that's what takes place. Anyway, only the Lord knows if one or both of the young men ever opened their hearts to the Gospel; we prayed for them and left them in the Lord's Hands. If nothing else, we kept them from talking to the other neighbors!

The real issue is one of spiritual blindness/bondage - so it's not just a matter of winning a debate; it is the Lord who makes the blind to see and sets the captives free! We made a point of NEVER wishing them well/God-speed in their missionary endeavors - we politely challenged their belief system from Holy Scripture, showed them the love of Christ and prayed for their conversion. These young missionaries typically save up their own money so that they can devote a year or so to going door to door to promote Mormonism (it's like a "rite of passage"); often a bicycle is the cheapest form of transportation available on their budget (that's why you see them riding bicycles). Sadly, all of this is done in an effort to promote a false religion. As the saying goes - "Speed isn't everything - direction counts!"

Sure - we know better. How's our outreach? To whom much is given, much is required. I remember a talk I had with a minister. I said, "I wish I knew more". He replied that he already knew too much. I was surprised, but his meaning was that he (we) needed to put in practice what he (we) already knew. May our Lord be with us as we prayerfully, actively share the Gospel in the "mission fields" in which He has placed us - home, work, school, church, clubs, etc.

Woody

Years ago when I lived out in the country I saw two young Morman missionaries coming up our long drive way to our farm house door. (We rented a old farm house but didn't farm for a year while we were building a new house a few miles from that area.)

I figured they were Mormans because they were both wearing white shirts, dark pants, and ties. I saw they had bibles and briefcases in hand so I got out my bible while saying a short prayer.

These two men were very cordial and polite. After a short discussion which I began by asking a few questions as to their intentions, etc....I simply told them that our main difference was in my belief in the Trinity. They believed Jesus is the Son of God but not God nor a person of the Blessed Trinity. Like most cults they don't hold Trinitarian beliefs. They have their own system.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness had not understood it." John 1:1-2

All else aside Mormans are usually good and well-meaning people who uphold loving God and others especially those within their own fold. They just think they are right and everyone else is wrong. Not so unlike the Jehovah Witnesses that way whose main goal is also to prostylize and get others right as far as they understand what getting right means to them. I think the witnesses consider their Kingdom Halls as the Kingdom. Anyone outside of that is to be brought in and indoctrinated. And one does not leave or one is shunned. However, I have seen some Mormons as well as JW's who get argumentative, persuasive, and insistant about their beliefs. If you stand up to them right away they will usually back off. The two young men that day didn't approach me that way. And...

They quietly left after I read them that scripture. I'd like to think I gave them something to think about but... ???

In Christ and the Theotokos,

Blessed Pascha tomorrow to all!

Porter

Interesting you should mention the similarities between Mormonism and Islam, Eli.

Back in my seminary days my Old Testament professor was a Russian Orthodox priest. He told us that in his mind Islam is the Mormonism of Eastern Christianity. He then gave us several points where the two belief systems were congruent: both had founders who had special revelation from angels, both have own text that supercedes the canonical Scriptures, both honor Jesus Christ but deny his true status, etc. (I wish I could remember all of his examples).

Blessed Pascha everyone.

Br. Elias, OSB

Brother Elias, that is a brillant viewpoint. Thank you for posting it.

Dear Brother Elias,

Today is the Julian Calendar feast of St Benedict of Nursia.

May he intercede for us all!

As to the list of similarities between Islam and Mormonism, one should not forget to add - both founders believed in polygamy and had many wives.

Alex

Interesting that both Islam and Mormonism received their beliefs from an angel. I wonder which angel that could have been, don't you?

nice topic! i remember when our brothers and me are travelling, we encountered a mormon missionary who ridiculed our faith and said that we're heretics and frauds! god forgive them, they don't know what they do!!!

Maybe, but Mormonism does not resemble Islam at all doctrinally; Islam teaches simple and stark monotheism. Mormonism, strictly speaking, does not teach the existence of God at all [that is, a Supreme Being]. Consciousness and matter are eternal and uncreated, the "intelligences" [souls] are eternally evolving. Islam at least worships the God of Abraham [please let's not have a big argument about that again; I state only what the Catholic Church teaches].
Mormonism is really like a materialistic sort of gnosticism, with a big debt to Freemasonry.

Br. Elias (nice name )

Actualy, many believe, including me, that Mohammad translated the Holy Bible into Arabic (and what a terrible job he did). Mohammad was taught by a priest who belong to a group of "half Christians" (they were a group of something bitween jews and christians and some pagan involved as well).

The God of Abraham in Islam is very different from the God Abraham in Christianity - in many places we can see that the muslim god of Abraham has no power over satanic powers such as magic (and this is one example only).

in islam it is Gabriel who spoke to mohammad.

May the REAL andgels of our TRUE God guard us of such evil.

Dear Brother Francis,

Well, some Mormons came to our door and I called them "heretics" after listening to what they had to say . . .

They REALLY didn't like me calling them that!

They REALLY had a problem with me saying that!

My father-in-law asked me to apologise to them when he heard me use the "h" word . . .

So I did.

I told them they weren't heretics at all and please forgive me.

In order for them to have been heretics, I explained, they would have had to have, as a group at one time, held the true Catholic faith.

So, as I concluded, they weren't heretics after all.

Their beliefs were just hopelessly ridiculous.

I'm very happy I apologised to them.

It still is Lent for me after all . . .



Alex

You have to admit, though, they do have a beautiful choir!

Every Sunday morning on my way to my Byzantine Catholic Church, I listen to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir on the radio, followed by the Jewish Soul Hour. I love L.A.!!