www.byzcath.org Forums Tell me what you SEE?

My God!

We are all - every one of us - like Peter!

Jesus said "Walk on the water over to me" and Peter got out of the boat and was walking on water until the point when his head took stock of things by consulting � this world.

"Oh my God ! I am heavy and heavy things do not float! Water is not solid! No one walks on water! I know people who have drowned! There is also a storm going on! I have to be in a boat so that the boat keeps me on top of the water = this can not be done!"

The result of using his own intelligence is that he sank.

There is a fundamental flaw here in our methods and tools by which we have been trying to recognize a union that would work.

We have been using our heads to identify what the rules and laws and physics and ways of this world � would allow as union. And by that we are sinking.

By using our heads � we inevitable come up with the results of �union is impossible.� And we lay out what we have intellectually identified as the rules and reasons and laws and ways the world works � which prevent � union.

We are using the wrong method

There is a dictum in philosophy. A true thing. A thing that is true under all conditions.

The dictum is an examination of how the human will works. What is its function and how does it function. Its � eros/attraction/longing.

The dictum is this� and it is sooo simple�

So let us believe philosophy for a minute. Let us assume that the union of the churches has existence as something which we are looking at and longing for by knowing something of its existence.

Let us also assume for one minute that Jesus is actually real. Let us assume for a minute that he has something to say about union. Let us assume for a short span that Jesus actually does stuff. And let us assume that the church is right when she tells us that the Holy Spirit speaks to us by embedding inspiration into us and let us assume he IS telling us what union should be like.

(follow me now � stay with me) we are now assuming that philosophy and the church can be right � are right - and that according to what we have just said � there DOES exist within us (who long for union) there does exist that union as a thing as a �thing� and as the only real form of union we can obtain. It exists inside us and IT is really what we are longing for.

I would LOVE to hear the inner vision of each � BUT not in a way of checking with the laws and rules for what the ways of this world would allow � RATHER look deep inside and tell me what you SEE. I do not want you to use you head and intelligence to determine what shape of union would be best and most efficient for the purposes of addressing problems in the world and construct a shape of union � in that way.

Look INSIDE and tell me what you SEE.

We ARE the mystical body - let us allow that mystery some space in which to be known. I think you will find that what we see - does not mean big changes to anything.

Let us get a fair image of what this union is - that God is drawing us to - by the longing he has placed inside us. WHAT shape inside are you longing for with your heart??

-ray

My heart is longing for a joyfully obedient Church that is not distracted by the wishes of those who are not obedient. My heart tells me that we are enjoying the Church that has priests that are enjoying what they are doing. My heart tells me that whether any of us alive today see union that there is union among all those who love God with all their hearts and serve Him as their highest aspirations through Jesus Christ and by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Everything else is not worth my time.

Dan L

Thanks Dan...

I have a tree in my back yard. It is a huge thing. It comes up from the ground and then about four feet up it begins to split into too trees. For about four feet there is a visible separation in the bark - where the one tree is growing into two trees. Like Siamese twins - for about four feet the bark is dividing but each tree is sharing the same core. Finally - above that - there is real separation and two separate trees rise all the way up. If you look up - you really can not tell which leaves belong to which tree. And if you back up 100 yards and look - it all looks like one tree.

I'll post a picture if I can get outside to take one - because it is really amazing how the trunk becomes two trucks all hugged together sharing one core. It is not just one tree splitting into two major trunks � if you see the way the bark is shaped � it is one tree becoming two trees � yet they share the same root system.

That is what I love about the church. That is the unity I like. And I think that unity does exist.

I don�t want to see �sameness� between the churches. I love the way the Eastern Church is and I love the way the Latin Church is � and I love that the Copts are different. I love East and West theology. I find having both is much fuller than having one agreed upon way to say it.

I really could not care less if they arguer at the top � if all the rest of us did not argue.

I wish I could receive the sacraments in any of the churches. I wish that I, as a Catholic, could go into a Russian or Greek Orthodox Church and know that not only can I participate in the Liturgy � but I could go up and receive Jesus fully. The same Jesus I receive in my RC church.

If we little people could trust each other and not recoil knowing we belong to different churches � I would be happy.

I don�t care what theologians argue about � nor hierarchy � except to the extent that we little people use that as a reason to make our love of each other � conditional on crap not even theologians and top brass can agree upon.

-ray