www.byzcath.org Forums The Call for Kerygmatic Renewal

Father and Gordo and anyone else interested,

We will be away for a few days and probably won't have access to a computer. I'm off to bed and tomorrow a.m. we will be leaving quite early. Before I leave I want to encourage you in this idea of a national conference that could bring ECs and Orthodox together in a Preaching or Kerygmatic or Evangelization event. I have attended many and they have been of immense value to me over the years. As soon as possible I will pm Father Anthony and will be in touch with you all with ideas.

This may well be a major spark for all of us.

Dan L

If I understand this topic correctly, the three of you (Dan, Fr., and Gordo) want some kind of a meeting or conference that would start a joint program of evangelization by both Eastern Catholics and Orthodox.

Allow me to play devil's advocate.

It probably won't happen because most Eastern Catholics and most Orthodox don't want to deal with each other.

It also probably won't happen because the Orthodox are evangelizing just fine by themselves, especially by the Antiochians and the OCA, with plenty of converts in the U.S. It's the Eastern Catholics who are needful of new converts and not getting many of them. Hence, the Orthodox would probably not agree to a joint evangelization movement with the Eastern Catholics because they have nothing to gain . . . except perhaps some converts from the Eastern Catholics.

With all due respect to people�s enthusiasm for harmony and reunion among the churches, I think a joint program between the churches is more an issue of ecumenism than evangelization.

If we really want to evangelize, we need to identify the churches that are successful at evangelization, study their success, and imitate what is compatible with our religion.

Well, currently in the U.S., it is the Evangelical Christians and (to a lesser but still significant degree) the Antiochian and OCA Orthodox who are very good at getting and keeping converts in America. How? After all is said and done about their various techniques, three things stand out clearly about them: (1) They personally love Jesus Christ very much, and they genuinely want to share Him and His love with others. (2) They are very confident in their own religion. Hence, they neither hope for nor would they accept participation with another church in their evangelization efforts -- because they know that their way is correct. (3) They meet people (potential converts) where they are --physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, to bring Jesus to them and them to Jesus. They don�t just keep to themselves and their church buildings. They go out to meet the people, wherever the people are --on TV, on campuses, in the street, in the market, in the workplace, etc.-- to bring Jesus to the people and the people to Jesus.

And all that gets back to the personal love of Jesus. They love Him so much, they want to share Him with others. And that is because they were open to receiving Him and His love: fully, directly, personally. You can�t give what you do not have.

They became full with the spirit of Jesus: full to overflowing with His love, overflowing to the point of sharing Him with others. Evangelization starts with love: Jesus loving us and us loving Him.

So, if the Eastern Catholics would like to duplicate the evangelical success of other Christians, they should strive to do three things: (1) Love Jesus Christ personally, by being open to His love, and thus resulting in genuinely wanting to share Him with others. (2) Be confident in Eastern Catholicism as the correct way of loving and serving Jesus Christ. (3) Meet the people wherever they are to bring Jesus to them and them to Jesus.

-- John

Just a moment before we depart and before cold water drowns the idea.

John,

Of course you are correct about the OCA and Evangelical Protestant models. But how do we get the message out and how do we encouarage better preaching? National conference can be an excuse for inaction. (Watch Cincinnati) Or they can be catylists for massive change.

I'll be back in a few days.

CDL

John,

I have to really disagree as someone that is on the inside regarding the meeting. A strong love for Christ is an important thing, but if one looks at the quality of committment from some in these churches you will understand were I am coming from.

Most are starving spiritually because of the poor quality of education and homiletics that are offered. Many have that spark regarding a love for Christ, but with a poor foundation they have little if anything to build upon.

Regarding your reference to the OCA, I think you better look at the statistics that were published for their All-American Council this year. By their own admission they have been experiencing a rapid decrease in membership over the last thirty years, numbering at less than 30,000 if I remember right, from around 100,000 thirty years ago. they even have a "Parish/Mission Closed" section in their newspaper and yearbook. The Antiochians refuse to publish any stats, but they are also struggling with a large number of their communities being unable to support their priest due to poor numbers.

I strongly believe that a strong and effective program of training effective preachers will help reinvigorate a desperately floundering church. That is why I am supporting Dan's idea in this regard.

Again a committment and conversion is very important, but from one that sees things from the inside I have to remind you that most evangelicals claim multiple conversions, yet many never develop from that point on. It is only from effective teaching, preaching, and nurturing that the conversion gains roots and grows in the faith of Christ.

Wishing you a blessed Nativity.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Dear Dan and Fr.,

Well, I will defer to your experience and judgement. I hope it goes well !

Merry Christmas to you both and to all your loved ones !

-- John

Father Anthony,

There is an Orthodox (GOA) priest at Holy Apostles Seminary Catholic in Cromwell, CT that teaches homiletics. I hear very good things about him...he may be someone that would enjoy being involved in an event like this.

My sense is that the way to recover the "fire" in preaching is threefold:

1. Seek to conform your life to the Gospel - a personal witness is the strongest "living homily" there is!

2. Proclaim Christ - a Christocentric homily based on the Gospels brings a focus to the relationship that we are to have with Jesus Christ both personally and as a Church communion.

3. Recover the quadratic method of preaching as illustrated by the church fathers and the New Testament writers as well. It is intended to bring together the Old and New Testaments in Christ - in fact one could assert that the whole NT is the spiritual meaning (interpreted in teh light of Christ) of the OT!

The "four-fold" method, as it is often referred to, is an excellent pattern for praching that brings the Gospel to life. I used it to teach 7th and 8th graders when I taught Scripture some years back. They loved it! Some would do this kind of exegesis on their own time and bring it in to me to review.

This method was summarized in the phrase from the Middle Ages:

The method is:

1. Begin with the literal/historical. What is the event portayed in the Gospels and Epistles? What is the historical context and meaning?

2. Move to the allegorical meaning. What are the implications for our faith in Christ? The Church? The sacramental Mysteries?

3. Then discuss the moral or tropological meaning of the text. What can I do with this? How can it be applied to my growth in theosis?

4. Finally, conclude with the eschatalogical or anagogical meaning. How does this point to the Parousia and our heavenly life to come?

To me, the four-fold method is the key to reviving the life of the Church, since I believe it is at the heart of the Gospel, since it covers and synthesizes the whole of salvation history and teaches people how to connect the mysteries of faith to everyday life in Christ.

A few excellent works on this subject are detailed below:

Medieval Exegesis (Vol 1 ad 2 in print) by Henri deLubac
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0802841465/ref=pd_cmp_rvi_2_a/002-8614419-6851241?n=283155

Making Senses Out of Scripture by Mark Shea
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/09...851241?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

From Shadows to Reality by Jean Danielou
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...851241?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

What do you think?

Gordo

Dear Gordo,

My mindset on the subject exactly. I hope some others can pick on the what you have laid out.

I will let you know some of the ideas after I get a chance to discuss them with Dan.

Have a blessed Nativity.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Gordo,

Wow. I think that four-fold quadratic method of preaching makes a lot of sense. It certainly has given me a lot to think about. Thank you for posting it !

And thank you, all of you, for your patience with me.

Merry Christmas !

-- John

Father Anthony,

I'm still away but found a few minutes of internet time.

I sent a PM to you. I had a very interesting conversation with some people here in the Detroit area yesterday and learned of some very effective events that took place in this area a couple of decades ago. I think we are onto something.

CDL

Go to any RC apologist site though, and you will quickly find this is not the case. They are more than willing to criticize the Orthodox on a number of fronts for �having departed from tradition�. Competing for converts, which I think is what a joint effort at evangelization would end up being, would only force both sides to focus on their differences and not on what they hold in common.

Andrew

Andrew, Christ is born!

You seem to be missing the point of the conference idea. It is not an effort to bring about a reconciliation, though it will be an educational experience for both sides. The main focus is to reinvigorate the art of homeletics that has grown stale and complacent among many.

Hopefully through the spreading the word, many will see the similarities we share in the gospel, and help break down age-old prejudice and misconceptions. If you ever had a chance to visit or attend an Orientale Lumen conference, both sides are represented and present, in an effort to bring about an understanding. This is now needed in bringing forth the word.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Here's what I sent to Father Anthony yesterday. What are your thoughts?

Father,

We are still away but I've had the chance to get to an internet connection for a few moments and thought I'd share a couple of thoughts.

There have been three types of conferences I have attended over the years that have been of immense help to me and my congregations over the years and I have learned of one in the Detroit area that is of interest. I will also list a national movement of which I was a part that did some effective quality control work for parishes and clergy. Due to time constraints I will only briefly introduce them now.

1. National Evangelism and Charismatic conferences. Each of these were three days long and featured plenary speakers/preachers interspersed with many smaller intense session for laity and clergy. Not only did I gain many practically insights and a deepening of spirituality but I also gained a spark that moved me Eastward.

2. National Preaching and Leadership Conferences. Again each were three day events. Among other things I learned how to better get the message of the Gospel across but also learned how important it is to preach without notes.

3. The Lay Witness Movement of the United Methodist Church. I don't believe this exists any longer but this is a method led by laity to share some wonderful witness and offer some great lay preaching for congregations. It was for a period extraordinarily effective.

4. Meeting with Fr. Deacon Lawrence Hendricks and a very accomplished Cantor during my time here in Detroit I learned of some very effective Eastern Catholic work. They had a "deanery" choir that was most effective that drew from several congregations. What was most intriging to me was the Evangelization conferences they had twice a year in the 1970-80 which seems to have been the peak years for the BC Church in America.

5. I was involved for a few years with a Quality Control movement within Methodism. I was trained at a national event. I would send a questionaire to congregations that asked for the assistance which gave me a picture of the congregation's health. From that I would go on site and meet with the pastor(s) and lay leadership and would meet in homes of several of the people. We would focus on various aspects of Church life in order to strengthen them not only organizationally but also spiritually with strong emphases upon prayer, music, preaching, witnessing, and study. The movement only lasted 2-3 years. There weren't that many pastors who wished to be helpers and I couldn't meet all the demand.

I hear mixed reviews on continuing education for priests. I surmise that few take it seriously. As Methodist pastors we were required to take three continuing education units per year and report to the bishop about our efforts and what we learned. I found these events very helpful, for the most part.

Merry Christmas!

CDL

Fr. Anthony

Glorify and receive him and may I ask your blessing!

I must be misunderstanding then. To clarify, I�m not under the impression what is being talked about is an effort towards reconciliation. Rather, reading some of the posts I was under the impression this was a proposal to engage in direct evangelism in a joint effort between Eastern Catholics and Orthodox irrespective of reconciliation. That is what I don�t believe would work. What came to my mind as an example are the engagements Orthodox speakers will go to in order to present our faith to non Orthodox audiences either in speaking/Q&A or debating format.

This is what I think is confusing me. Spreading the word to me connotes direct evangelism, i.e. not Orthodox or EC�s engaging in internal renewal or talking amongst themselves. Though I agree both things are surely needed and worthwhile, that seems to me to be a different activity than spreading the word. Also, attempting to break down age-old prejudice and misconceptions sounds to me like reconciliation and not evangelism of non Orthodox or non Catholics.

Andrew

Andrew, Christ is born!

You can not invigorate others towards the faith unless you invigorate your own. This can only be done through effectively preaching the word and teaching. Many of our communities on both sides of the divide are dying for only one reason, they are starving spiritually. It is high time we learn, again on both sides to teach and feed our flocks.

Being that both sides have been reluctant to take on something like this by themselves, maybe a collaborative effort may draw enough to help each in their respective ministries. It does not have to be an occasion to proselytize each other, but to give methods and examples of effectively reaching out to their flocks. Then we can focus on reaching those outside. If not, the prognosis is not good at all.

Remember also, we have a very poor image problem because we been so inclusive for so long. All you have to do is state you are an Orthodox Christian or a Byzantine Catholic, and surely you will get in most instances a reply along the lines of, "What's that?" Feeding our flocks spiritually will help give them the self-confidence that may help reduce that kind of reply. If we do nothing, than each of us should expect that more and more in the future, and to our shame.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Father maybe we just need a good ol' down home southern style 'hell, fire, and brimstone' revival.

But you are sooo right! Seriously, unless we ourselves are renewed by and in the power of God it is very difficult to evangleize others.

Our twenty-three year old daughter is a wonderful evangelizer. She uses(gives) the BYZANTINE BOOK OF PRAYER(English, hardbound) w/Divine Liturgy of St. John and St. Basil, Molebens, Acathist, Parastas, Tropars/Kondaks, private prayers and Devotions) for those in trouble or not at all at peace. She begins by just getting them to read on a daily basis the prayer in there for Peace. Thats it just Peace! Then she leads them onward to other prayers and the Psalms.

This morning she said she is thinking about doing the prayers on cd's, that way when people are in a hurry after they are use to the prayers, they will be able to listen and pray on their way to wherever they are going.

She is changing the lives of people. She herself had to be changed - she went through that twenty something attitude of I don't want to be there - however, now she is on fire.

That is what you are saying, if we are not evanglized we cannot or won't evangelize others.

Pani Rose