www.byzcath.org Forums No such thing as "parish closing"

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Evangelizers,

I am hoping to deal with these ideas and other foundational issues of vision and evangelization in a blog that is currently being set up for me.

In the meantime, I am glad that Karl has courageously 'broken open' what is very much at the heart of any real vision and evangelization.
In fact, this aspect of the "redistribution of resources according to a vision and sense of Mission" has essentially been my particular stamp on vision and evangelization. Ironically I am the only one who never, ever, uses the term,
"parish closing." This is because it is not a matter of "parish closing." This extracts the issue from any context of vision and uses purely negative and emotinally explosive language.

Rather, I am speaking of a renewal of spiritual perspective from a foundational level to bring ourselves individually and as Church into a closer configuration of the Mystical Body of Christ on earth. One of the reasons I believe so strongly in this aspect of vision and evangelizatoin is not only because it is based in Scripture, where we should be anyway, but because I have seen it work and I have lived the fruits of it for 23 years! The Bible works!!!

Karl is absolutely on target: We have been "loosing" parishes for years and we will loose others by default. Why have Church administration by default? Why not take the bull by the horns and actually chart our own destiny proactively with a plan that is based on Acts 2
("They held all things in common.")

There is no such thing as "parish closing" in my mind or in the world of visioning. There IS, however, things lke "renewing a community" or
"transfiguring" a community.

As a person who not only grew up in the Cleveland area, who still loves Cleveland (but not as opposed to llinos) and served as a priest in Cleveland for 10 years, and who has served in another part of our eparchy since 1993, I can say with some authority that there has been for quite some time a serious imbalance in the investment of resources in the whole of the Eparchy of Parma. CAUTION: In saying this I am NOT criticizing or blaming any bishop or eparchial administration. There are a myriad of reasons for the imbalance and it occured over a myriad of years. I am simply stating a fact, like a conscientious physician who CARES about the health of his patients and makes a diagnosis. We have to first make the diagnosis. Then we can provide the healing.

In visioning and evangelization our goal is to have bona fide parishes and other entities such as monasteries, shrine, etc. that are deemed to be things that will yield--they will be "charismatic," and evangelical. This means that in visioning we invest in what we believe will yield the most.

There are things happening and potentials in the TWELVE STATE region of the eparchy that if cultivated could yield tremendous results. BUT this potential has been lying fallow because the resources are concentrated in certain areas that are not yielding as much. The only reason for this imbalance is simply the fact that we have not stepped back and looked at the whole picture trough the lenses of Mission, vision Evangelization. This is why I keep saying that the Byzantine Catholic Church in America is standing at Judgement Day and is being asked,
"What are you doing and why?"

In the context of Mission, vision and strategic planning, and with a renewal of our fundamental spiritual perspective, the placement, amalgamating, openning, etc. of parishes, monasteries, etc. happens as the natural outgrowth of a Biblically based spirituality.
This is light years away from "closing" parishes.

Annunciation parish currently loans their cantors out to neighboring parishes who are in need of them. Our choirs (notice the plural on the word
"choir")troop around the country upon request, we are poised to assist in the development of new missions, we are on Catholic radio in a measure unprecedented in the history of the Byzantine Catholic Church, and I could go on and on. We are in position to give to others and to bring new life everywhere and in many ways ONLY because the Byzantine Catholic community in Northern Illinois DARED to get Biblical and combine its resources. It is a rhythm of "imploding so as to explode" again. Whenever I use that phrase people react often with emtion and anger I think because of the word "implode." But you MUST hear the other half of the phrase: The goal is to EXPLODE. It is just that sometimes the only way to explode is to move through a period of "imploding." Remember, when a star implodes in the universe (black hole) its properties become unimaginably dense and strong! But this is nothing new. It is the Paschal Mytery! It is the seed that must "fall to the ground or remain just a seed."

I believe that until we really look at this aspect of our "Judgement Day" no substantial renewal will take place in the Church. Reassessing resources, be they parishes, monasteries, money, clergy, people, etc. is a life-giving thing. It is all about opening, not "closing."

--Fr. Thomas J. Loya, STB.,MA.

P.S--A slight correction in Karl's noble post:
At age 51, (not 52 yet) I am ONE of the youngest priests in the Eparchy of Parma. There are just a few younger than me. But the point is well taken. We MUST face the reality of our situation. We have not only a shortage of priests but also of people!--more about this later.

Fr. Thomas,

If that conscientious physician notices that the patient is an alcoholic and an abuser, should the physician be labelled 'negative' and a 'troublemaker' in lieu of the problems that exist with the patient?

A diagnosis demands calling a spade a spade, but many on these boards are so ready to demand an exit to those who do so. Are you the only one allowed to be fortright and honest? Many of us too have seen the sickness in the hospital.

Like others who have been schooled in being conscientious and vocal, we raised our concerns only to be labelled 'negative' and 'troublemaker.' We gave signs of what we thought would come and were laughed at or ignored.

Then one day we woke up to twelve priests charging an eparchy as being taken over by a network of homosexual priests. Then battles began.

If priests can be the conscientious physician, cannot laity?

Why are vocal priests considered 'conscientious', but vocal laity considered a 'problem.' ? Is defensive listening a habit difficult to break for some?

Your response is important to me.
Joe

A poster raised a concern regarding a former parish in the eparchy (St. Mary Assumption, Joliet, IL) in another thread...

If I may, I�d like to offer my perspective on this issue:

Background: I am a cradle Byzantine, born and raised in a Ruthenian household, and a former member of St. Mary Assumption, the Joliet, IL parish of which Mary speaks. I was even educated at the parish school from 1960 (the year it opened) through 1965 (the year I graduated). Granted, our school was always small (e.g., there were six of us in my graduating class), but at any given time all eight grades were always represented by what we assumed would be the next wave of Byzantine Catholics in the Northern Illinois area.

As in any relatively small parish with strong ethnic ties, St. Mary�s had maybe eight or 10 �family names� that, between moms, dads, uncles, aunts and cousins, comprised the bulk of the Church�s parishioners. These same family names were always evident in the school�s student body mix in about the same proportion as in the Church�s parishioner mix.

For various reasons, my current visits to Annunciation parish are sadly few and far between. When I do manage a visit, I�m always sadly amazed at how few of my contemporaries from the old Church and parish school that I see in attendance. Not only that, many of the �thoroughbred� family names from the old Joliet parish seem not to be represented at all, at least at the Divine Liturgies I�ve attended. I may look around and see one or two senior members from about half of the old families in attendance � this is understandable since these folks are mostly very old and many others of them have already went to sleep in the Lord. What I don't see, however, is the �next wave� of Byzantines that I mentioned earlier � the sons, daughters, nephews and nieces of these senior folks � the ones that were expected to �be� the Church today. I can usually count on one hand the �kids� I remember going to school with that I see in attendance... and I�m not referring to my class alone; I�m referring to the entire school population � all eight grades! It�s almost as though an entire generation of Ruthenian Byzantines just up and disappeared!

Now, based on these observations alone, and lacking specific census data, I feel fairly certain that the parish took a substantial hit parishioner-wise when the old Church closed and the move to Annunciation was effected. Entire Ruthenian families, it seems, fell off the face of the earth. True, there are many new families to fill in the voids, but (again, my opinion), not enough (at least not yet) to supplant those who, for whatever reason, did not make the trek eastward to the new parish.

Would these �lost souls� still be in attendance had the old parish not closed? Who knows? I�m not na�ve enough to believe that they all disappeared because of the parish move alone. Certainly, geographic relocations by the individuals themselves must play a major part in their absence � it certainly does so with regard to my own attendance. Whatever the reasons for their absence may be, the fact remains that they are not there now.

If we�re to continue to talk in terms of evangelization, I believe that this group, the �Missing Byzantines,� deserves special attention. These folks are, for the most part, canonical Byzantines who don�t even appear as Eastern Catholics on the Annuario Pontifico census records. Doubtless many, if not most, are still practicing Catholics, worshipping nowadays in the Western tradition. Maybe some don�t even know that, canonically-speaking, they�re still Byzantine Catholic. A common misconception seems to be, �If I enroll at a Latin Rite parish, then I automatically become a Latin Rite Catholic.�

These folks are also mostly of Ruthenian ethnicity, no doubt still bearing the �spark� of our Church�s rich tradition and history somewhere deep inside them � perhaps a little fanning of that spark is all it would take to rekindle it into a full-blown flame of Byzantine splendor. Now is probably the time to actively seek out these folks. Now is probably the time to start compiling names and addresses, before the remaining old �thoroughbreds� that may have ready access to such information also return home to Our Lord. Perhaps something like an eparchy-wide �Homecoming Weekend� of sorts, complete with direct invitations to as many of these folks as can be tracked down would bear much fruit.

Is this proselytizing? I think not. I�ve heard it said that on any given Sunday there are more Byzantine Catholics worshipping in Latin Churches than there are in Byzantine Churches. I know this to be true throughout the ranks of my own extended family, and I have no reason to doubt that this phenomenon explains the absence of many if not most of the contemporaries of mine of whom I speak.

Proselytizing? Not at all � just a heartfelt personal invitation to come home.

Al (a pilgrim)

P.S. My sincere apologies to Fr. Tom for my use of "parish closing" verbiage in this post... I typed this earlier and merely cut & pasted it as is - since I am now at work, I frankly haven't the time to edit my wording.

Dear Joe,

Because laity's job is "pay, pray and obey . . .?"

Alex

Dear Al:

I am dumbfounded by your own account as it is spoken deep from the heart!

It certainly adds an interesting perspective to this discussion.

May yours deserve a serious consideration!

Amado

Al and Joe,

I'm a layperson. I speak with that authority. Nothing more nothing less. I invite you to come by the parish and join with me in sorting through old records. You have the passion to encourage the "thoroughbreds" to come home. So you would be the primary candidate to do the work of uncovering these names. I will help you, but I know none of the people of whom you speak. You have written of this concern before. Usually when a concern comes up over and over it is because God is calling you to be the point man. So, let me know when you are ready to do the work and I will do everything I can to help you.

Joe,

There has indeed been some nastiness in the past. You have shared your concerns with me before. There will indeed be nastiness in the future. Do you wish to see at least some of it change. Then keep in touch and help us change the Church. Or watch all of us close it down.

Dan L

Amado,

Why "dumbfounded"? People make choices. Al is correct that for some maybe many all it takes is the right kind of invitation to bring people home. I suspect that St. Mary's had seen better days. It certainly was no longer in a great neighborhood. I don't think the school has existed for a long time. And I suspect that the Church could barely support itself. It certainly could no longer support a full time pastor or it would have been so doing. I have no idea of the families of which Al speaks. All I know is that there are plenty of people from all three former parishes now in attendance plus an abundant number of children. Moreover, if anyone has a calling to lead in the start up of a new school I'm sure Father Loya would listen to their vocation.

It's easy to say what others ought to be called to do and much harder to listen and heed ones own calling.

Dan L

Mr. Lauffer,

You have spoken in the past of "parishes of convenience" and of a whole generalized cadre of so-called do-nothing priests as "dead wood."

Since you are one of the prime movers in this evangelical effort and have worked closely with Father Tom, could you explain to us how the language that you use to describe the consolidation of parishes comports with Father's euphemism of "transformation" as a near-holy action on the part of the diocese when it transmogrifies a parish as though it were a fungible asset rather than an organic part of the life of that diocese?

Mary

Dear Dan:

Dumbfounded because:

--of the fate of Al's parish of his youth;

--by Al's account more parishoners of St. Mary's opted to attend Latin Rite parishes instead of going to Anunciation and, with it, the young, the future core of St. Mary's, could be lost forever to us Latins;

--Al's suggestion to revive, reconnect, and recoup the residues of St. Mary's closure is so natural that I am surprised why, seemingly, it has not been done?

Dan, in all sincerity, I am all for the revitalization of the Byzantine Catholic Church and your tireless work has not gone unnoticed!

Amado

(It is becoming more apparent that you are well qualified to be the MAIN point-(lay)man because you have been there and done it, although in another setting!)

Amado,

God bless Al the Pilgrim and I hope he takes me up on my challenge. The problem with Al's analysis can be summed up in one word "Nostalgia". As a young person I remember going to a wonderful small church with all sorts of children and nice adults. I vividly remember some of my teachers and many of my pastors. I also remember when the sold the old church to the lumber yard in town for storage. Then I remember our new Church with scouting, Sunday School, nice adults and nice children. But then I remember going back to that same church for Christmas worship. Six little old ladies and a part time pastor were all that remained.

I also remember the times I worked with my mother churning milk into butter, cheese, and buttermilk. I remember making candy with her. If that's all I remembered I could sleep alot better. But the downside was also just as true.

On the "Latin Rite" material, neither he nor I know how many went to Latin Rite parishes. Again, I hope Al will contact Father so Al can look through old records and find out where the lost members have gone.

I have no knowledge that such a homecoming idea hasn't been tried. I know we have had homecoming celebrations but I don't know if the absent parishioners were contacted or not. I think Al's idea is a wonderful one and I'd be very happy to help him pull it off.

Thank you for your kind words about my efforts and vocation.

Dan L

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Evangelizers,

I can see that we are moving more and more into the fire rather than just "warming our hands" around the fires of Mission, vision, and evangelization. This is good. Keep it coming!

Keep getting closer to the deepest and issues. You will see that they are many and they are deep.
The closer we look into the distribution of resources (meaning: to what and how do we invest time, effort, clergy, and money) the closer we will come to the deepest issues that both constrain our Church and which will emancipate it toward a "New Springtime of Evangelization."

One of the reasons I am going to share my thoughts through a blog medium is because I wish to descend into the depths of the real issues and to do so with those who will dare to go. This cannot be done on a Forum.

The investment of resources (Mission, vision and Strategic planning) brings our gaze to where the rubber meets the road. It brings us (to use a previous analogy) to the root of the diseases and subsequently their cures. We are like a team of physicians who must look at the whole picture and go as deep as we can and make an assessment.

Please remember something. I grew up in the Cleveland area precisely during the years when the Byzantine Catholic community began to make its moves from the three inner city parishes to the immense proliferation of Byzantine Catholicism that now saturates the entire Cleveland area. I have known ONLY vision, creativity, evangelization as it existed in our Church. We are simply being called to it again only now the stakes are even highre. This expansion of our Church in the Cleveland area was a wonderful thing and I contributed toward it myself even as a priest when we relocated one of those inner city parishes to a new growing area. (This is what was asked of me by the Church and this is what I did. And what wonderful years those were! They were full of new promise and young people, new young families, positive newspaper publicity, etc.) For a time this was all wonderful but many, many factors have changed on many many levels,(the Church, deomographics, economy, etc., etc.) Now we must reassess things in order to move into a New Springtime of Evangelization. Please notice, this is not a blame game. This is simply a call for renewal at the very foundation of our Church.

This topic is very dense with multiple factors which is why seeing it as any one thing (a parish
"closing" and some people getting angry) does absolutely no justice to the subject. There are factors that, if we are really serious about renewal in the Church and evangelization, we will have to look at even from a historical point of view.

You see, when we are talking about renewal, vision and evangelization we are talking about EVERYTHING being considered in the context of a sense of Mission and vision. The history that is peculiar to the Eastern Catholic Churches in America is a HUGE, HUGE factor that weighs in during any talk or action of change. To talk honestly about what happens when an entity, such as a parish relocates, or "transfigures," or to ask the question whether an entity Should make a move, relocate, etc. you actually have to factor in what happened to the Eastern Catholic Churches from the time of their Reunion with Rome! This is just one of the mulit-level considerations in this whole area of renewal, vision, evangelization. It simply is not about any one topic factor.

The important thing here is that entering a
"New Springtime of Evangelization" is a win-win proposition, although, like any life-saving surgery, it will have its pain and blood. Let's keep the positive-only-input-spirit of August 6 going. Do not get personal and emotional as these will of course be great tendencies in this process. This is a journey back to our Biblical roots which means that it is a blessed journey.
A "Movement" is stirring in the Byzantine Catholic Church and it is based entirely on love of God, Church and neighbor and nothing else. It is a movement that seeks to always build up and enter more deeply into the Paschal Mystery as indivduals and as Church. Our Church is being faced with HUGE questions at time, questions that really confront why we exist and what our destiny is. What are we being called to? The Church is greater than any one of our lifetimes or our grandparents lifetimes. It is Mystery bigger than all of us and we simply must ascend to it.

--Fr. Thomas J. Loya, STB., MA.

My issue, Dan, is this: why is it that when laity vocalize their experiences they are labelled "negative," "nasty," or "troublemakers." ?? But when an ordained cleric does the same he is labelled "conscientious." ??

Joe

Joe,

I don't know. I'm sorry that it has happened to you. Father Loya respects my opinion. Bishop Kudrick has so far listened to what I have had to say. I don't know what the future holds. I'm certainly not criticizing your reaction to how you were treated.

Priests may be given a greater hearing because they have sacrified more and has more to lose than the rest of us. There are certainly conscientious laypeople around. I would apply that label to anyone who did act in a conscientious way.

Beyond that, I do not know?

Dan L

Dan, my brother,

I�m afraid you�ve lost me, my friend. How is it that you can sum up the observations I�ve shared regarding the exodus of former parishioners to places unknown as well as my simple suggestion to possibly draw some of them back home as a case of �nostalgia� on my part? Forgive me, but I�m having a tough time seeing the connection here. Let�s recap what I actually said: A poster asked about the �human cost� associated with a parish closing; I related my firsthand experiences, having lived through the early stages of the closing of the specific parish mentioned by the original poster; I offered my views, based on firsthand knowledge and experience, with regard to where the �Missing Byzantines� may have wound up; I offered a simple plan to possibly bring some of them home.

Help me out here, Dan. How is it that the �problem with my analysis,� as you put it, is due to nostalgia? What am I missing here? I fear, my friend, that your dismissing of my account and suggestion as mere �nostalgia� makes me out to be some sort of senile old grump, longing for the �good ol� days!� (c�mon, Dan� I can�t be that much older than you!).

I have a fear, Dan. My fear is that we somehow allow ourselves to get so caught up in the �New Springtime of Evangelization� within our Church that we trick ourselves into the false belief that anything (or anyone) that is part of the Old Church is automatically counterproductive and must be exorcised. I sense a feeling that runs along the lines of, �We can�t move forward if we�re dragging the baggage of the past along with us.� What I say is, �Stop and open up that baggage before you toss it out. You never know what treasures you may find inside!�

You are right on this account. I, like you, don�t know how many of the group I speak of actually wound up in Latin Rite parishes, but if the �sample group� that I still maintain contact with (heck, many are relatives!) can be used as an indicator, I think we�d both be surprised at how high the number actually is. And their reasons vary. Some �went West� out of convenience, some for the schools, some because that�s where their Catholic friends and neighbors go. Many, if not most, of these folks appear to be truly happy and fulfilled in their Western spiritual environs and, truth be told, probably couldn�t be coaxed back anyway. Sadly, their children and grandchildren will more than likely grow up never even knowing that they were/are Byzantine Catholics. On the other side of that coin, painful as it may be, we must face the fact that many left out of bitterness over the handling of the closing of their Church. I see no good to come from my providing specific complaints or details that have been shared with me, so I won�t.

I�m humbled that you think me worthy of the challenge you�ve laid before me and, frankly, somewhat intimidated by the potential magnitude of the task. That aside, I must admit that there are others who are much better equipped to spearhead a task such as this than I. I, too, am a layperson and, like you, speak with only that authority� even less authority in this particular case than you who, as a registered parishioner, would have more of a right to peruse parish records than me, a far too occasional visitor. I do offer you this, however: If indeed you are serious about initiating efforts to track down those former parishioners of which I speak, those who are now �MIA,� I�d be more than happy to PM you with a list of family names, many of whom had already vanished from the parish ranks by the time of your own arrival. These names would offer you a �best bet� starting point for a records search (you may want to start with Baptism & Chrismation records from, say, the mid-40�s through the mid-70�s or so). Let me know if you�d be interested. Here�s an even simpler starting point: Ask the old timers that are still around for names and addresses!

If I may, please allow me to offer you one small bit of advice: Over time, many people will have many great ideas regarding this movement the Church is entering into. If these people come by the impression that just by merely offering an idea or suggestion they must face a challenge to take up ownership and see the idea through to fruition, I�m afraid you�re going to end up with a lot of very good ideas that never make it out of the mouths of a lot of very silent people! What a shame that would be!

Please be kind when referring to my old neighborhood. There are many wonderful families who now call that neighborhood home, as did I. They may not look like your typical individual of Ruthenian ancestry, but I assure you that their spiritual needs parallel our own. Many of them were very interested in our little parish community � some, in fact, had already joined. Who knows? Perhaps their �next wave� of Byzantine Catholics would have stuck around.

Al (a pilgrim)

Al,

What I mean to say is that your depiction of what St. Mary's was in the mid 1990s does not coincide with the picture I get from the folks who were members there in the 1990s whom I know. Maybe their picture is clouded. I don't know. I only know the parish from 1999 forward.

At any rate I said and I still think this that your idea of having a homecoming celebration is a good one. If we had priests to accommodate the situation we could start a mission back up in Joliet and in Peoria. Maybe the old neighborhood could be revived as a Spanish speaking BC Church. Maybe the members who did not join in the merger would like to rejoin the parish. Maybe Annunciation has had a coming home party in the past before we arrive. Maybe they've had one since we've been there and we were not aware of it. Maybe you and I could get one started.

I did not put down your idea. I welcome it. In fact I offered to help you pull it off. That is not discouraging your idea. It is encouraging it. You knew the people. I do not know them. In order to have this work we would need you or someone like you to pull it off.

How about it? Are you ready to roll up your sleeves and come and get this good idea going?

You're a nice guy. You have shared a potentially very good idea. Let's do it.

Dan L