www.byzcath.org Forums Neighborhood Surveys

Al,

I readily admit I'm offended. Now that this is on the table let me state very emphatically and once again, if you want to do this project I will help you with it. Father has told me that such events as a homecoming has taken place.

I was a pastor for 27 years. Maybe just maybe Byzantine Catholics who have become inactive will suddenly slap their heads in mass and say "Duh, I did not realize that I am canonically Byzantine Catholic. Now I will come back to Church and be active." I'm certainly not afraid of that. Why should I be? To suggest otherwise is very insulting and I really don't appreciate your remarks.

My experience has been that many people leave for a variety of reasons, just as you have suggested. If they return and follow the spiritual direction of their paator I say "Glory to Jesus Christ." I welcome them with open arms.

Now let me ask this, What is it about our efforts to grow that bugs you so much?

Dan L

Dan,

I think Al is only responding in the way you would like: honesty. But maybe I am wrong since his response isn't what you like to hear. If you wish to ignore it, then fine. Just follow suit with many others who could care less.

But I know you to be a caring person. And that is just fine.

I know quite well how some priests feel threatened by cradle Greek Catholics, so they belittle them (and their lack of understanding of Byzantine ways) to no end. They enforce every canonical, statutorial, and customary practice on them to make it rough, but look the other way for newcomers and friends. What was earlier a mere drifting away from the fold becomes a stampede.

I would love to see all the living cradle Greek Catholics return. I would gues there are probably as many, if not more, canonical Greek Catholics in non-Greek Catholic parishes than current parishioners, including newcomers and converts.

We can simply say, "Hey! We will welcome them with open arms ..." But it will take more than that. Our Lord said to go after the lost sheep, not write them up as another notch on one's belt of haughty triumphalism and vanity. It is always too easy to look away, my friend, from the reasons that drive people away. Personally, I am tired of trying to keep them in the fold when they turn to me in despair. Many of their reasons are plain stupid for leaving, but they, like you, have been offended one too many times. Where is the compassion?

If cradle Greek Catholics are that stupid, then we must ask, "How did they get that way?" Who taught them? Who said that it was more important in being or proving one's Catholicism than actually exemplifying that as living icons in our own tradition? Who offered them ashes on Ash Wednesday but failed to offer anything that resembles Eastern Christianity for so many years? Why did such parishes get away with it for so long?

One pastor of mine from way back once said he like his old-style pastor from Scranton because this guy just came out and told his people from the pulpit that if they didn't like it his way, they can leave through the church doors now. What a hero to look up to, eh? Certainly not a type of neighborhood survey any of us would recommend, would we?

I would hate to think, Dan, that these custom-designed parishes (hybrids) were allowed to fester only because their parishioners, who were so often misguieded, pay well. Money talks and some clerics think they are employees of the people.

It is always easy to conclude that the problem with naughty children is simply the naughty children. But I know too many naughty children, even in my own hood, who have no fathers to guide them and/or discipline them. My wife and I are constantly confronting and teaching our neighboring children. Many just don't get it. There is nothing worse than being fatherless or having an abusive father.

Joe

I hate to say this, but some good points are being made. Education has to be not only with the laity, but certain attitudes have to be addressed among the clergy. Maybe then things can be addressed by opening the arms up to welcoming faithful back.

Just my opinion.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Joe,

What offends me is the assumption that we don't care about people coming to the parish. Why is there a set up for one group and against another. It is as if there is a built in distaste for one group against the other. I'm not interested in that game. As far as I can tell Father has not favored one group over another. What would be the point. We have a good mixture of converts and cradles. It is nice. Our God parents are cradles. Until Al made a point of it I was very pleased with their caring attention. They are also very active in the parish.

Should I now ask them no longer to be our sponsors? Should I leave the Church?

Joe, I'm going to take your advice. The way thread has drifted into a game of gotcha I'm just going to ignore it. I've offered my assistance to Al and if you wish to come by and offer some help that would be fine as well. Perhaps a pilot program could be established for the Eparchy in how to encourage cradle Catholics back to the Church.

Positive ministries are what this forum is all about. So come and test your theories. I'll even help.

Dan Lauffer

Father,

You may be right you may not be right. I don't know. But what does this divisive argument have to do with "Neighborhood Surveys"? If people are intent upon dividing cradles from converts and stirring up animosity between the two let them have at it in their own thread. That discussion is a side track from growth. It will continue to tear our Church apart. For what purpose. I wish you'd close this thread as well. Whether or not you do it I will not participate in a discussion designed to tear our Church to pieces.

Dan L

Agreed Dan.

I was responding to points made. I agree that we need to put this thread back on track with the original topic posted. If we want to discuss the other points, please bring them up on a new thread.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Moderator

For Neighborhood Surveys to be effective the local Church must know who it is and know that what it is has something to offer this world. If either element is missing a survey will do little good.

If we know we are the Mystical Body of Christ and we know that the Body is the instrument of salvation then we have a starting point.

The practical steps include:

1. A few simple questions which reveal who we are as well as illicit some understanding of whether or not a particular family senses a need in their life for what God is giving the world through us. The questions must be kept simple and asked in such a way that we keep away from arguments and show a connection to the people. Afterall it is to our own neighborhoods that we are called first or we would not have been located in them.

2. A few people who are trained in asking the questions and are motivated to ask them.

3. A specific way to respond to those who seem uninterested and to those who seem interested.

4. A specific way to follow up on each group.

Suggestions are welcome. More to follow.

Dan L

I don't think anyone was discussing YOUR parish.

Joe

I would like to remind everyone, that I have requested we stay with the original topic of this thread. If you want to deal with side issues, bring them up on another thread. I am not going to be asking again. If you want to argue, please take it the PM route.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Moderator