www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople is against UGCPatiarchate

A better choice of words might have been:
"Da heck with the Muscovite ROC beaurocracy !"

and

"Only through a Ukrainian Kyivan Orthodox-Catholic Patriarch, can Russia be re-evangelized !"

By using the words "hell & Russia" he is ostracizing the Russian people who should not be faulted for having inherited a church which has been damaged by decades of communist oppression.

IMHO - This interview, and the choice of words he used were well thought out. The Vatican is sending a strong message to the global Catholic community that ecumenical dialogue with the ROC is a goal which is achievable and desirable but will not happen with the current ROC administration.

You know, I like this fellow "Father Taft" Did he spend some time in Siberia with Patriarch Iosef Slipeij by any chance? or Is he just a very intelligent person.(Now this guy deserves a "Hramota")
Lauro

Dear Hritzko,

Yes, very good point!

Messaging by the Vatican is always vetted down to the last letter and the prominence of Fr. Taft's comprehensive summation of what Vatican policy toward Moscow should be is an example .

Anyone who can bring together so many complex issues and discussions about Moscow in a few words, as Fr. Taft has done, truly does deserve some sort of award .

I suppose since Moscow is only the Third Rome, the Vatican feels it can take some liberties!

Just lets not all of us begin to go about repeating Fr. Taft's sentence like a mantra or something . . .

Alex

I've got some good news and some bad news. The good news is that I've just found an interview with Kyr Hlib Lonchena to an Italian newspaper. The bad news is that it's in Italian.But it has something to do about what we're talking about.
"Capicche"

http://www.korazym.org/news1.asp?Id=5704

Dear Lauro:

After me spending excruciating days on end trying to pick up some smutterings in Ukrainian (and Portuguese), you come up with a news item about the UGCC's relentless drive for a Patriarchate(perhaps an earthshaking one at that! ) in Italian?!!!

What do you think of us, raving Latin Rite lunatics? :p

AmdG

Dear Friends,

You know, Fr. Taft may be on to something . . .

Perhaps the Vatican wishes to use the issue of the UGCC Patriarchate as a solid political ploy in its dealing with Moscow?

Perhaps it wants to see if it can make Moscow say "Vuyko" or "Uncle" by threatening them with such a Patriarchate?

Hmmmm. . . let's stay tuned . . .

Alex

Dear Ipreima,

I speak French and Spanish and was able to understand it almost word for word. You speak Portuguese so I'm sure you could also.

The article is just a summary of many of the other posts we have been reading:

(1) Pat. Bart's sobbing letter to the Vatican
(2) Kaspers visit to the Patriarch of Muscovy (ie: he's gonna get the news)
(3) Legitimacy of Patriarch for Kyiv
(4) Effect on relations between Orthodox and Catholics

Yada yada yada yada...

Very positive from the reporter tone in regards to what appears to be a fait accomplit for the Kyivan Patriarchate.

Bishop Hlib is a Harvard University graduate - at least that's what someone in one of my history classes there told me. He's a bright guy (bishop Hlib - not the guy in my class).

Dear Hritzko,
You were right. I could do it and I noticed that my hands started to fly around making gestures as the Italians do when they start speaking. Interesting isn't it. I think I'm going to an Italian restaurant this evening.
Arrivadercchi,
Lauro

Much as I enjoyed Father Taft's admirable interview, I would not send Moscow to hell - because the Old Ritualists have just held their Sobor in Moscow to elect a new Metropolitan to succeed Metropolitan Alympyi, who fell asleep in the Lord a month or so ago. So far no news as to who the new Metropolitan is.
Incognitus

There probably are two messages:

(1) The UGCC will have a patriarch.

(2) The ROC and it's Patriarch need to undergo a true introspection of their current 'management style' and then re-direct themselves appropriately. The church probably needs a serious and complete 'makeover'.

In my opinion this situation will only stregthens ties between The Orthodox of the Kyivan Patriarchate and the UAOC with the Ukie Greek Catholics. I think a Ukie Patriarchate is about to appear sooner than we expect it to. Presidential elections in Ukraine are if I'm not mistaken some time this summer and this also is of much importance, and if we get some more Irish priests like father Taft to back us up than we really have nothing to fear.
Lauro

Dear Hritzko,

If the UGCC gets Rome's acknowledgement for a patriarchate, I'll send you and Lauro an icon each . . .

The Vatican indeed wishes to tell Moscow to behave better toward itself.

Moscow won't, however.

I'm still saying let's stay tuned to see how our patriarchate issue will be used (and perhaps abused) by the Vatican in trying to get Moscow to make concessions.

Alex

Bless, Father Neznanyj!

Yes, the new Old Believer Metropolitan is Vladyka Andrian.

There is a write-up about him in Russian on the MP website: www.mospat.ru [mospat.ru]

Alex

Dear Alex,
I hope I'm not asking for much, but since you mentioned it I'd like a copy of the "Potchaiv Mother of God icon".
Diakuiu Vam,
Lauro

Dear Lauro,

Only if Rome acknowledges our patriarchate!

Alex