www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Importance of Statistics

Friends,

The ongoing discussion of Church closures in Passaic with seemingly no way to know why prompts me to again address the subject of statistics.

From everything I can tell one of two things exist in our metropolia. Either: only a very few have access to any usable statistics about our churches; Or: None exist.

I am working out an evangelization system adaptable to any Church and adaptable to the Eparchies and Metropolia which will show precisely where our strengths and weaknesses are and how to address both. Without a statistical basis there's not much that we will ever do to right our ship. For crying out loud as busy and as exilerating as the first two days of the Church's existence was there they had sense enough to keep statistics to wit: "3,000 were added the first day...an additional 2,000 were added daily and for an indeterminate period of time the "Lord added daily those who were being saved." If they can do it, only incompetance or apathy keeps us from doing it.

Dan L

Dan,

What do you think of the statistics about Eastern Catholics from the CNEWA ?http://www.cnewa.org/generalpg-ver1.aspx?PageID=125 Do you think they are accurate?

-- John

Dan,

Call some priest from various churches. Ask them for there stats. I know my church keeps those numbers. I used to have to count the people of people in Church on Sundays.

Now use those stats to compute the overall stats of the Eparchy. Its been a while since my statistics class but I do have my book laying around if you want some help. Better yet we might have some statistics majors on this board.

Ray

John,

I think they may be closer to the truth than what we had in 1990 or even 1995 but they are almost worthless for evangelization purposes. For that matter, how would anyone know whether even these figures are accurate except for the number of priests and religious.

Let's take Parma for example, since this is my Eparchy. If we have 12,401 "units" in the eparchy and we have 37 parishes that means that we have an average of 330 "units" in each parish. Are "units" families or individual baptized members? I'm assuming that whichever that figure represents it does not represent the average number of those who come to Divine Liturgy. Active members are more important than total members but we have no way of knowing how many active members actually exist.

In order to have an effective evangelization strategy we need to know: 1. How many baptisms and Chrismations occur each year in each Church. 2. How many adults are a). baptized and/or b). Chrismated each year. 3. How many children, youth, and adults attend DL and participate in some area of the Church. 4. We need to know how many and what kinds of outreach programs are part of each church's life. 5. How many vocations are in the making. 6. How many are in some form of catechesis, etc.

I'm not saying that it is even possible to get exact statistics but one can get some indicators with statistics that are not possible without them. For that matter, statistics are only as good as the leadership who uses them. If all we did was to gather stats without using them to help congregations grow or to give guidance to our priests so they can know what standards the Church expects its pastors to achieve then the stats are worthless.

A growing number of us are realizing how essential it is for our bishops to call all of us together to give a state of the Church message and a rallying cry for renewal. But how are they going to do that if they don't have accurate statistics.

Furthermore, many of us are aware that some of our parishes could gain new life and unnecessary costs could be eliminated if we learned how to be good stewards of what God has given us. God does know what we need but one piece of our awareness of His call is the gathering of adequate statistics.

Dan L

Ray,

That's an excellent idea. Do you think the priests in each parish would cooperate? Once the semester is over I may well give this a try. It would make for a good sociological study if nothing else.

Dan L

Dan,
This information is sent to each Eparchy every December/January by the priests in their yearly reports.
Quarterly financial reports are sent and then an overall yearly report with all of this information must be forwarded. Bishops know exactly where each parish stands in this regard- on paper, anyway.
Sam

Not pretty! Pittsburgh and Passaic have been slashed to 1/3 the population they were 10 years ago. We can afford to slam doors in people's faces??

And whats going on with the Ukrainian Church as well? Numbers are 50% what they were 10 years ago, even in Europe.

Sam

Sam,

Are we shrinking that much or are people getting honest? I wonder when those stats which are reported to the bishop are going to be made public? I wonder if they will ever be used to inspire the Church toward evangelization? What good are even these stats if they aren't used?

Dan L

Dan writes:

Dan,
You may not notice in your parish, because it sounds like you have one of the more active, vibrant places. The decline is more visible in other, older areas.
I think there was discrepancy in the numbers initially in the 1970 census, but this new report and 2/3 decline reflects changes from 1995 to the present.

IMHO the numbers are not used as an evangelization tool. In reality, there is little evangelization going on.

What is obvious is a sort of 'maintenance/protective mode'. Not to knock elderly persons, but when you get to your 70's and 80's, few people are in a Jack LaLane mindset.
When you have a heirarch that is close to 80 years old, he has different priorities than a younger man who sees life ahead of him. His perception of life is very different. An 80 year old man worries about having enough money set aside for whatever will happen that will eventually lead to his death. I believe the church is being run in the same manner, according to the perception of its leadership. Assets are being sold off, we see downsizing and putting away $$ for eventual death. The vision is skewed by old minds.
My opinion>or one of them...

Sam

Statistics can be made to promote whatever one wants to think depending on how the sample population is viewed.

Souls are not statistics and the average person in the chapel doesn't care about statistics. You work one at a time and see where it goes.
DD

Dan,

Thank you for your very good explanation. I didn't understand what you were looking for; now I see.


Sam,

I realize that older men have different perspectives than younger men. However, some older men can be older and evangelical. St. Boniface went on a mission to Frisia when he was in his seventies (and when he was martyred).

So, the present demographic collapse in the Eastern Catholic Churches doesn't seem to be a function of the age of the leadership but rather, perhaps, of the vision of the leadership.


To anyone,

In the U.S., are there any bishops or monasteries in the Eastern Catholic Churches (Byzantine or other) that are clearly committed to the renewal and expansion of the Church?

I know that in the Roman Catholic Church in the U.S., there are several Latin Rite religious orders that are clearly committed to the renewal and expansion of the Church. There are, for example, Fr. Groeschel's Franciscans of the Renewal in New York City; a group of Carmelites (Our Lady of Peace) outside of St. Luis, Missouri; and others.

My question is: Are there any bishops, monasteries or other groups in the Eastern Catholic Churches in the U.S. that are doing likewise: working for the renewal and expansion of the Eastern Church?

-- John

John,
Good point. Perhaps I was just trying to make an excuse for the obvious lack of (fill in the blank).

Sam

John, I think Holy Resurrection Monastery is clearly and fervently committed to the renewal and revitalization of authentic Byzantine monasticism. And their monastic Typikon clearly allows for metochions (dependent foundations) to be established. Monasticism is central to the renewal and vitality of our Church's life and future. May God grant them many years.
DD

Yes, let us all do what we can to support Holy Resurrection!

Lord have mercy !