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Christ Is Risen!!

I've read some really old posts on this forum and there was supposed to be a Byzantine Evangelization Group being started by someone. What happened??? I went to the website they have listed and it's not there anymore--neither is the Yahoo Byzantine evangelizing group.

ATTENTION BYZANTINE CATHOLICS: We HAVE TO EVANGELIZE or we are losing people to the Roman Catholic Church and other churches. I do NOT mean to sound "against" the Roman Catholics, for I am NOT. I am just so literally sick and tired of my beautiful Byzantine Catholic Rite fading away because LAZY Byzantine Catholics are turning to Roman Catholicism or going to the other extreme and leaving the Catholic Church all together and becoming full-fledged Orthodox. And the "Catholic is Catholic so it doesn't matter which Catholic Church I go to" is the WRONG ATTITUDE!!! It DOES matter---even our late Pope John Paul II distinctly stated that Byzantine Catholics who go Roman have a sin for leaving their Byzantine Rite for that is what God made you to be. The Byzantine and Roman rites are the two lungs of the Church. If we lose our Byzantine Rite, then the Catholic Church itself has COLLAPSED (metaphorically speaking of course) because it will only be using one lung. This is why our Byzantine Catholic Church is fading away. This attitude that "Roman/Byzantine it's all the same so let's go Roman because there's more Roman churches around and it's just down the road so it's easier" has GOT to STOP. God forgive me for being frustrated, but I am literally in tears thinking about my Byzantine Catholic Church vanishing before my eyes. We have GOT to do something! I want to do something so bad, and I just don't know where exactly or how to start. Does anyone have ideas?

Please, someone help me with ideas on how I can gain more people for my Byzantine Catholic Mission. I NEVER EVER want to lose it.

Evangelizing Ideas??? Is there a website or yahoo group for evangelical ideas for Byzantine Catholics to bring more people back to our Rite----including lazy Byzantines who have left their Rite because the "easy way out" is to go with the Roman Catholics? There I go again sounding angry but I am truly, truly concerned about my Byzantine Catholic Church. Help please!!! And forgive me for my frustration. I truly am sorry for sounding angry, but I guess I'm just THAT frustrated at the thought of losing my Byzantine Catholic Church.

In Christ,
ByzantineCatholicForever

Religion is no longer relevant to many people. That is real problem. Yes, people leaving going to other �Churches� is a problem but they are leaving for convenience or the lack of demands on them. This goes back to the bigger problem of relevance in their lives.

What needs to be taught is Christ is real, He rose from the dead and by death he conquered death. People no longer belief this.

Pope John Paul II distinctly stated that Byzantine Catholics who go Roman have a sin for leaving their Byzantine Rite for that is what God made you to be.

Is the converse true - Roman Catholics who go Byzantine have a sin for leaving their Roman Rite for that is what God made you to be?

If so, I need to stop going to the St. Louis Byzantine Catholic Mission, and start going to the Sacred Heart Roman Catholic Church just down the road.

JP

The Church has a process to permit people to change rites and you are telling us the Church is party to a 'sin'!!!!

I think not. Sounds more like a figure of speech on the part of the late Pope, if he has been quoted correctly and in context.

John you are quiet safe to go where you will.

Happy Easter!

ICXC
NIKA

Thanks for the info.

I actually go to the Byzantine Mission for the Divine Liturgy on Sunday, and to the Roman Catholic Church for Mass on weekdays. There is no Divine Liturgy on weekdays.

Happy Easter to you as well,

JP

OK, I'm not like the Baptists who recite the Scriptures word for word citing verse and chapter, so I admit I can not tell you exactly where or in which one of Pope John Paul's teachings that he stated this, but Pope John Paul was WONDERFUL when it came to realizing the dire need for growing and preserving the Byzantine Catholic Church, and I do know that because of the "lop-sidedness" of how many Roman Catholics there are compared to Byzantine Catholics that he did state that for a Byzantine Catholic to PERMANENTLY leave their Rite for the Roman Rite was STRONGLY discouraged at the LEAST. And no, it did not go for the vice versa because the Byzantine Rite is the Rite that is struggling, not the Roman, and Pope John Paul was fair enough to recognize this. So no, I am not suggesting in any size, form, or fashion that THE Catholic Church has erred in any way--that would be a sin on my part---THE Catholic Church is NEVER in err--I know that and did not insinuate such a thing. Keep in mind, hypothetically speaking here, just because there "COULD" be "bad" priests out there that do not listen to what the Pope states on this issue or any issue (for that matter), does not mean that THE Church erred.

HOWEVER, this is totally getting off of the topic of my main concern which is: BYZANTINE EVANGELIZATION and PRESERVING OUR BYZANTINE CATHOLIC CHURCH HERE IN THE USA.

Please, I need constructive help with this. I respectfully ask that we keep to this topic on THIS thread, otherwise go start a brand new post elsewhere on the rights and wrongs of switching Rites.

In Christ,
ByzantineCatholicForever

Please, someone help me with ideas on how I can gain more people for my Byzantine Catholic Mission. I NEVER EVER want to lose it.

Here is an idea: The Roman Catholic Church is leaving the black inner city and moving to the white suburbs in most major communities. Many of the inner city churches have been closed and are for sale.

Let's direct our evangelization efforts to the abandoned inner city parishes. Let's ask the local Roman Catholic Bishop to sell at a reduced price, or even give, a closed church to the Byzantine Catholic Church to be used to evangelize people in the inner city.

This suggestion will turn off a lot of people because who wants to go to Divine Liturgy where half of the congregation is black?

It doesn't bother me to worship in the inner city. Does it bother you?

JP

Evangelisation is something that has to start within each of us. We have to become familiar as individuals with sacred Scripture and the liturgical and ecclessial life of our church.

I think it odd that peoples attendance at Latin Rite mass is considered lazy. That is quiet a loaded value judgement on the actions of others. Personally I am pleased they go to Church. Lazy might be that they dont go at all, but then if they dont go maybe they simply dont believe.

It is also my expereince that people usually move off in a particular direction towards something that meets their needs. I am not talking about shorter services but the church as a community or Parish. Bulding up communities of people who look after each other is very inviting to people to stay put and to others to come and swell the ranks.

The Byzantine Rite is not going to fall over anytime soon but it is up to individuals to build up their parishes to be witnesses of the Christian community. I dont believe any grand plan can do that for anyone church. It has to happen at parish level.

Good Byzantine Liturgy has to go hand in hand of course with all this. So take the pews out give the wood to the poor .

I visited a cousin in England a few years ago and on the Sunday I went to church with his wife while he went off and drove the parish bus. The bus collected a woman and her sons who would not have been able to get to mass, an older lady with mental illness who had a nonstop chat with someone the whole time and one or two older people. After Mass he took them all home again.
This was a parish who cared for people and a few parishoners took it in turns to drive this bus.

So give people a reason to stay in their parishes and let others see that your parishes are the sort of place they want to belong to.

A thought for the day.

ICXC
NIKA

Good for you!

The local Ordinary is not really concerned with building up the Ruthenian church. He has an obligation according to Canon Law to address the needs of Eastern Catholics living within his diocese, not make new Eastern Catholics.

There is a crying need for Apostolic outreach among the urban African-American communities across the United States, so you are on the right track there. Because these populations are primarily Protestant (and thus western), the Latin church will assume that these communities would belong within it's fold.

I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure that no Latin bishop will turn over property to a sister church which has not yet established an actual need for it. They would rather sell it for the cash.

I have another suggestion. With a couple of like-minded individuals go the the cantor institute and learn to lead the congregation in chant. Missions can be built around Reader's services and can be held in different parts of the city during the week. Then go door to door with little brochures explaining the prayer services you are holding, inviting the people with a big smile!

Don't target Latins, that's poaching. Go to people out there indescriminately and talk to everyone you meet. Plug away at neighborhood fests and block parties, and pray a lot.

Good luck and God bless!
Michael

With respect Michael I think you will find that the Latin Ordinary has no responsibility for Ruthenians or Ukrainians as he does not have any of them in his diocese. His predicesor would have signed them away a long time ago. They have their own diocese and are the responsibility of their own respective bishops. Ruthenians in Missouri are in the Eparchy of Parma.

Protestants are free to choose where they come into the Catholic Church, just as unchurched people can. This has been the line in the former Soviet Union that unchurched could not be regarded as belonging to anyone.

I agree with you in regard to property. I think the diocese would rather have the money unless the property was more trouble than it was worth. I would wish John well with his desire to the word out there that they exist and people may like to come along. I was impressed to note that Afro-Americans have joined up with various Orthodox Churches and some have joined the ranks of the clergy and the monastics.

ICXC
NIKA

Dear ByzCathForever,

Pavel's advice in the above quote is a definite need before any evangelization can take place. Without prayer and preparation, all you will have is a haphazard effort that will yield little fruit. Your posts indicate that an urgency exists and solution must be found immediately. If that is true, then there is no quick fix. There are many threads in this section dedicated to evangelism and ways of approaching it.

Many of the threads if you read them will have the same premise, prayer, preparation with education, and having prepared yourself to actually hone your approach to deal with your circumstance of your location for each is unique. This in part means that you will have to be involved in the liturgical life of the community and versed in what it is all about. This will be important because many of the first questions of those coming into a church will be about worship and prayer.

Also another important part of any evangelism effort, is that it is not an individual effort, but a community effort. Your mission or parish has to buy into this concept and be prepared to assist those that are new in either by preparing them for conversion or by welcoming them back to their spiritual home.

I would suggest first that you read through some of the old threads in this section of the forum. Make some notes, speak with your pastor, and then if anything pose some ideas back up on here. I am sure that we will all be glad to give our thoughts and feedback.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Moderator/Administrator

BCForever,

I just typed in www.byzantinecatholic.com [byzantineevangelization.com] and went to the forum. It still exists. It's just that we haven't contributed articles for a while. The website is still there.

CDL

I'm sorry. I'm so used to referring people to our Church website that I typed it in rather than the evangelization website.

The proper address is www.byzantineevangelization.com [byzantineevangelization.com]

CDL

Hi Pavel,
That's not exactly what I meant. I was speaking in the broader terms of Canon Law. The local Ordainary is responsible to serve Eastern Catholics who are otherwise not served, that's the law.

However, due to the complications that can come from the fact that there are already three Byzantine-rite hierarchies established in the USA (Ukrainian, Melkite and Ruthenian) that should cover the whole country theoretically it appears that the Latin Ordinaries have been establishing Russian parishes to be on the safe side. No matter.

As I stated above, the local Ordinary is responsible to serve Eastern Catholics of whatever church to the best of their ability. Sadly, in general they do not really handle this responsibility well.

The Saint Louis mission is an example of such an effort, the space is borrowed from a Latin parish, no doubt with the approval of the local Ordinary.

To a point yes, if the converting individuals are informed and insist. But Canon Law presumes that Protestants will be ascribed to the Latin church. The local Ordinary has no actual obligation to cooperate in the establishment of brand new missions of another Sui Iuris church on his 'turf'.

Also, Latin bishops are closing parishes that are down to a few hundred registered members because of the financial burden the diocese is unwilling or unable to carry. They are not going to turn over any properties to a jurisdiction that has 0 to 15 members who don't even live in the neighborhood.

If nothing else Latin bishops are practical administrators, it is a highly regarded and indispensible skill in the organization. One might say that the Eparch of Passaic demonstrates the same skill-set, we have seen how practical and efficient he can be.

+T+
Michael

Bishop John is the local ordinary for his people in his diocese. That a Latin or any other diocese shares the same geography has no bearing on the case at all. Nothing in Church law permits a bishops of another diocese making arrangements in the diocese of another.

Of course Bishop John would have to want to take on buildings etc as they cost to operate and maintain. It may just be that in his view now is not the time to be looking that far ahead.

I dont agree with your view on people outside the Catholic Church being seen as naturally for the Latins. That form of missionary work ceased a long time ago. There certainly was a time that all evangelism in the Church was to be done by Latins, with the exception of the various Eastern Rites who were to work on the Orthodox.

You might notice that when the Russians were in China the Orthodox left behind a Chinese Orthodox Church. When the Russian Catholics left China they left only their dead. All evanglism in China among the 'natives' was only to be done by the Latins.

ICXC
NIKA