www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Do we now have married priests

I'll remind you lads it was I who predicted Bishop John would be the first one amongst the BCC hierarchs in the USA to ordain a married man...

I had the privilege of meeting Bishop John when he was still Father John. It's a wonderful feeling to meet a priest who is both a good priest, and a man of good character. I wish we had more like him.

EIS POLLA ETI DESPOTA!!!

Glory to Jesus Christ!

The wise Elder Epiphanios of Athens (1930 � 1989), founder of the Monastery of the Most Graceful Mother of God in Trizina, in the Peloponnese once counseled:
I believe we are being distracted with this married priest idea for all the wrong reasons. Will a married priest evangelize and rebuild or build a parish better than the existing celibate priests?

I serve on the parish advisory council twice a month and attend a adult education class once a week. Yet, my wife and mother of our two-and-a-half year old son believes I spend too much time at church. Our parish priest is working 7 days a week. If he was married he would be looking at divorce.

Further, how are we going to pay for a married clergy when we already have parishes that are strapped for cash and whose numbers are in decline. Now, let us compound this senario by bringing over married priests who grew up in a former communist country and don�t speak english as their native tongue. What about the culture shock not only to the priest and his new bride but how will the parishioners react? Let us plan in the next decade for an American married clergy in the following decade!

Is the real issue that some believe we have a shortage of priests? Another wise holyman, a protosyncellus of parshes and laity from our Byzantine Catholic eparchy once said on this very forum:
Let�s get back to discussing evangelization! How are we going to survive and grow? Where are we going to get the money to build or renovate? I�m suggesting a strategic vision that must be started now!

Scott

Scott, and how is the restoration of our authentic traditions and disciplines not in accordance with evangelical goals?

The title of this thread was quite obvious, and if you thought it not appropriate you didn't have to post. Please forgive us who are enthusiastic on this thread about supporting our bishops in this regard. Are we mistaken in doing so?

And why are your numbers in decline? Perhaps some introspection on opportunities for local evangelism in our Byzantine tradition will be of benefit.

Celibate or married, I'm sorry but we do have a priest shortage when there is a net reduction year after year with number of retirements and deaths vs. prospective seminarians. Broadening the spectrum to return to the traditional discipline (i.e. married clergy) can't hurt.

Well, it would bring publicity, and that's nothing to sneeze at. Doing something really daring, like ordaining married men, would definitely be perceived as newsworthy and could attract the attention of a lot of people who would be thrilled to investigate the Eastern Rite Churches, if they knew it existed. Which, as you know, an awful lot of people still don't.

Scott,

I understand your concern. I know how many hours I had to spend away from the family when I was a married clergyman for 27 years. I know the dangers of divorce because of the pressure. Nevertheless, there are many practical advantages that married clergy bring.

The only real concern is the wrenching that the transistion period may bring to our celibate clergy. The last thing anyone wants is for our celibate priests to be shoved to the sidelines. I can't imagine that happening. But my prayers are that all of our priests will be bolstered by the courage of a Church being restored and that our celibate priests will always be honored as spiritual lights.

If we are courageous in all of our endeavors our congregations will not only adapt but praise God for our Church's integrity.

Dan L

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Diak, where are you finding a comprehensive guideline to our authentic traditions and disciplines in accordance with evangelical goals?

There is nothing to forgive, the question is how are you going to support a married priest at your Byzantine Catholic parish? Remember, this a discussion not an indictment of His Grace, Bishop John!

During a special visit last December 2004 from His Grace, Bishop John, His Grace told us only two parishes were showing true growth in the eparchy. Our parish was one of the two. Our exponential growth is not because we have a married priest but rather a priest that knows true Eastern Christian spirituality. Basically, he was able to attract new parishioners and re-attract former parishioners through education. Further, he brought the true authentic Byzantine Catholic liturgy, traditions and spirituality to us.

There you go apologizing again! There is no shortage of vocations because the seminary and the eparchies are turning away late vocations who have completed seminary training, have earned multiple degrees and have no impediments!

It will hurt because we presently do not have the means to support it! And further, it sure isn�t working gangbuster for the Orthodox!

Again, I�m for a married priesthood, however not in this decade! There are too many other things to do like re-attracting many of our people back from the Roman Catholic parishes, attracting new parishioners, and stabilizing then multiplying our financial situation to build and renovate our churches and schools are issues worth pursing!

S�Bohom,

Scott

Gentlemen, Gentlemen,

Let us not squabble. Let us trust that God is leading us and if we are courageous God will send us all the priests we need and if we are courageous in reclaiming our Eastern ways our Churches will grow.

I don't doubt that only a few of our parishes are growing and I suspect that we will grow as we look at these matters in a more strategic way.

I do have one question, Scott. What does this have to do with having enough priests? Are you saying that the seminary is actually thinking strategically for the Eparchy's growth?

"There is no shortage of vocations because the seminary and the eparchies are turning away late vocations who have completed seminary training, have earned multiple degrees and have no impediments."

I don't see the connection between the seminary turning down priests and a strategic plan for growth.

Dan L

Dan:

I was just answering Diak's statement concerning the so called priest shortage!

Scott

Scott,

My dear friend. I'm delighted with both of you and with all of our efforts. You are all good people. I wonder when we can all get together to plan out some strategy?

Dan L

It is polite to answer a question before posing another. I asked and I still await the answer.

Scott, as I mentioned before on another thread in this section, the Orthodox mission priests often have another means of income so it need not bankrupt a parish.

Orthodox mission priests are ordained knowing up front they will have to have an alternative means of employment, and if you would care to read the remainder of the threads in this section we have discussed that very possibility and necessity.

Financial concerns should not cause us to put our heads in the sand. Another decade will mean the closure of more parishes and the loss of more clergy at the current rate.

We simply can't afford not to, and not just because it is the right thing to do in accordance with our traditions. We need the men, and the exhortations of everyone up to the Holy Father to recapture our authentic traditions and practices are out there.

It will not be easy by any means. Our nearest Ukrainian pastor has five children. But he and his parish make it.

I'm having reconciling with your previous comment (perhaps a generalization?) with And since it has already happened, waiting a decade doesn't seem to be possible.

The mission success of some segments of Orthodoxy is a guide and example. The priest needs to be able to have supplemental income. That seems rather sensible.

Is Joe Kupec in your parish by chance?

Dan, thanks for the peacemaking, but we were in the midst of congratulating our bishop for being a good bishop when this erupted. The restoration of our authentic tradition and practices, as Fr. Loya himself has said, goes completely hand in hand with any sensible and rational evangelization. I agree.

I keep hearing how we can't afford married priests. The Protestants in this area give 10% of their income to their churches, build buildings, hire clergy, and seem to do quite well financially. Could it be that we can't support priests because our people are cheap and don't give back to God at the level they should? Maybe our folks have gotten by for so long without adequately supporting the Church, that they think this is the way it is supposed to be.

byzanTN,

Father has been promoting tithing for some time. Our income has been slowly increasing ever since. We don't rely upon gambling for our income. Generosity is possible. But one must seek it.

dan l

I have read that Catholics - RC Catholics were the only Catholics surveyed - are near the bottom in percentage of income given to their Church as compared to Protestants. I wouldn't expect Eastern Catholics to be much higher on the scale. The Protestants have really pushed tithing as an obligation, and it seems to work for them. Of course, Protestant churches are more democratic, so perhaps the congregations feel they have more control over where the money goes. That could be a factor, I suppose.