www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Why do we have such a frozen and large bureaucracy

Why do our eparchies have such a large and frozen bureaucracy? Someone asked how can we gather and keep and analyze statistics? The answer is obvious. Get rid of most of the bureaucracy and ask people who know how to get things done to do that which needs to be done. One does not need to brow beat faithful people. They will get whatever needs done done. But no amount of browbeating will get fearful people to do anything.

Prune the ungainly and unworkable bureaucracy, know what needs to be done, and ask effective people to do it.

Dan L

Not sure how large a bureaucracy the Ruthenian Metropolia and Eparchies have, but the Melkite Eparchial staff is about as lean as it can be and still function effectively.

Many years,

Neil

Neil,

Perhaps we Ruthenians should take a page out of the Melkite play book.

DanL

Dan,

First, ask if those positions are needed. Some jobs are canonical. They must be filled.

Second, other jobs might be extra padding because the Latins have all these offices. So what if the same name ends up on five different positions? At least the positions are filled and it looks like we have something going for us. Are the Latins looking?

Some vocations might apply and then end up being sent to programs that the eparchy never intended to use, then be lied to about the existence of the programs that are being used, then hear all the denials that no one knew what the other was doing, and then wonder why vocations get frustrated. The problem, Dan, is NOT the system, but the people who were dumb enough to think the system works. But if the leaders of our church RELY on such people ...

Demming had an 80-20 rule. 80% of all screw ups is fault of the management and/or their precious little systems.

If they aren't doing their job properly, and if they are getting monetary compensation for it, then they should cut the job and save the eparchy some money. THERE! Ain't I a genius?

Do this test. Study your eparchial newspaper. If the majority of the "news" is Latin Catholic oriented then you know what I am getting at. We are Ordinary People. Trying to look like and be concerned about our older brother and making ourselves look productive might end up killing us.

We've had Evangelization committees for ages. I saw "Inter-Eparchial" meetings , color pictures included, in past issues of eparchial newspapers. They all looked quite official and busy. What did all those useless and pathetic meetings accomplish?

Joe Thur

Joe,

We may turn out to be Fools for Christ on August 6. I don't blame you for being sceptical but this matter will be brought up and we are prepared to challenge these kinds of useless activities.

I still remember someones commment that the Evangelization group seemed offended by some of our comments here. After all they had been working on a statement of evangelization for several years. The response was: "Give the laity the assignment today and by this evening we will not only have a statement but a workable ministry and people who are eager to fulfill it." I would modify this a bit. The laity must really care what they are doing. But that modification applies to clergy as well.

Very few standing committees are worth having. A far better approach is when a job is needed to be done let the bishop call together a few hearty souls who care about the issue and give them permission to get the job done.

Seems like that is what the bishop has done with the Aug. 6th meeting. Are you coming?

Dan L

Hee, hee, hee. Let's see, the Church has been around for 2,000 +/- years spreading the Gospel to all peoples, translating its Scriptures and Liturgies for worship, inventing alphabets where there were none, feeding the hungry, giving aid to the homeless and poor, catechizing converts and newbies, Baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, founding schools at all levels, counseling the addicts, those preparing for marriage and those grieving over the death of their loved ones, preaching and expounding the message of the Gospel to every generation, healing the sick, assisting the elderly and handicapped, ... and we STILL haven't quite figured out what we are supposed to be doing? Heaven, we have a problem! What were/are they trying to say? The Fathers of our nation took less time to write up the Declaration of Independence and they had NO precedent. We do! If anyone should be offended, we should. We pray for them, we support them in various ways, we built seminaries for them, we ordained them, we consecrated them, ... and they STILL don't know what the church is supposed to be doing? Can you spell C-L-U-E-L-E-S-S? Did we loose the warranty that came with the church?

Our churches certainly didn't take such a long time to come up with a statement on child molestation (because our clergy were molesting innocent children), but this was because they HAD to. Evangelization doesn't seem to be a hard pressed issue unless we are talking about the Judgment Seat of Christ. In fact, when more time is needed for liturgical practicum, the first thing to go is Scripture, where we just might learn the essence of our mission statement. We need to say NO! to ridding all attempts to get instructed in the Gospel message. Maybe then we won't have to listen to I/me sermons. Liturgy and hats and vestments (lace or silk?) seem to be where it is still at. But to quote one former Latin Catholic priest, such externals, however necessary, are compensations for lives that are considered by those living them, as unfulfilling.

If lives are unfulfilled, it is because we forgot Jesus Christ. It is time we return to our core competence as Church.

Joe

Joe,

Right you are. But wouldn't it be fun to get together to do something positive for the Kingdom? I'm 58. I've been through the ropes. I know the frustrations. I also know that begging someone to come to a meeting simply means that the meeting may not produce the desired results nor is the person being begged going to be helpful in the long run. Yet, Joe, I wonder: Are you the man, or should I seek another?

Dan L

Dan,

No reason to ask if I am the man. I left ministry formation two years ago noting that I no longer wish to serve the eparchy. Haven't heard from anyone since.

I suggest we kick off our 'return' with a worship/praise/healing/singing rally. A two or three day worship and praise fest. Invite preachers that will and can knock the socks off the attendees. Rent out a convention hall (and make sure to serve halupkis and pierogies nearby). How about the Cleveland State Convocation Center? It is near Parma. Many high schools and colleges rent it for graduation ceremonies. Invite other Catholics and Christians (Protestants and Orthodox) to join us. Raise the roof with a joyous melody. Get serious and be serious. Invite the youth to attend the convention too. Invite the media too. Make one freaking fuss about this like we just discovered Jesus Christ and can't wait to start anew and afresh.

Instead of talking about Evangelization. Let's do it.

Joe

Joe,

Agreed, but starry eyed posts won't get it done either. Are you coming Aug. 6th or do I look for another. Are you a man of substance or just a talker? I'm not intending to make you angry just to get you off the fence.

Dan L

Please see my previous post. I got off the fence two years ago. I've dealt with talkers for years, which included a lot of smoke being blown where the sun don't shine. Have I heard from anyone since? No. If they were interested, they would learn alot about how the system is all screwed-up. I've made suggestions before and also offered to follow through. But I learned early on that the process hates to make decisions.

I should probaby stop posting on these forums. They only get me all worked up.

As for the August 6 meeting, YES, I would like to attend. But as I stated earlier, I am between jobs/contracts (I am self-employed) and both companies are fighting over me. I hate working for the French. If I can make it, I will be there ... wearing a smile.

Joe

Joe,

I thought my faith was not displaced. Anyone who sticks around and retains his enthusiasm after what you've been through is the kind of man we need. No promises, except we may have enough strength together to get some things done no matter what impediments stand in our way.

Being self employed has its risks and problems but also its rewards. As bad as the French are they did save Nissan's behind. So they aren't all bad.

Dan L

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Joe,

You and I are brothers in arms guy. I also tried and tried and got shot down. However, I am ready to re-enter the fray.

I do hope that you can make it on Aug. 6th, I for one, would love to meet you.

The one thing that I have learned is that renewal bubbles up from the bottom. Programs for renewal (if anyone wants a good example, just look at Renew and Renew 2000, which was tried by the USCCB.) have an abysmal record because they are written by committees. Evangelization by committee never works because the base idea of a committee it to make everyone happy with the decisions. Most of these decisions are reached by "Consensus." The problem with consensus is that no one is really passionate about it because it has been homogenized to the point that everyone is equally unhappy with the outcome and you don't get real agreement.

This meeting is to get ideas out, and to implement them. I used to think that I needed permission to spread the gospel. Guess what. We don't. We do, however, need to work with the Eparchy.

Bureaucracy in some ways is a safety net. However, I believe it is time to simply become the Church of Evangelization that Christ himself commissioned.

John Gibson

Dan,

I was thinking. Maybe Bureaucracy was invented by Satan.

I wouldn't go quite that far. It is a safety net for those unfairly treated. Sadly, too often it is a protection to coddle the lazy, ineffective, and even sometimes the evil. I don't think any organization exists without some bureacracy. Everything depends upon its effectiveness to acually fulfill the purposes of the Church. Jesus' bureaucracy was a lean mean saving machine. Well, it was more than that, but I think you get my drift.

Dan L

Dan,

My enthusiasm remains because the jaws of death and despair will never prevail. I thought of leaving many times, but never got both feet through the door. My church is too much in my blood.

I love Jesus.

Joe