www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Neighborhood Surveys

How many of the Churches here conduct regular neighborhood surveys? How effective are they in your experience?

Dan Lauffer

Dan,

The GOA Dept. of Outreach and Evangelism conducted some sort of survey recently, and I believe it can be checked online through the GOA website at New Parish Survey [goarch.org] .

I hope this helps.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Dan,

I don't know what we do. Maybe you should contact the parish advisory boards. Then again, I don't know what they do either. In the past, the policy was not to share parishioner addresses with laity due to lay movements that may not have approval. Does your pastor involve the laity in such things?

We should survey former parishioners without the pastor's knowledge to discover why we have lost so many people. This is just as critical.

Joe

Joe,

I think there is some purpose in interviewing those who leave but only to correct some flaws. People who leave leave for a reason. Sometimes a kindness can bring them back but if the Church is the same as it was when they left their logical response to an invitation to come back would be "Why?"

It's also good to interview new people to the parish to find out why they came and stayed. It helps us to know what are strengths are and to emphasise those as long as we are actually do our best in the first place.

The Neighborhood Survey I'm thinking about is the kind in which members of the congregation get acquainted with the people who live with a mile or two radius of the Church building. Invite them to the Church. Do a survey of needs. Something like that.

I take it from the lack of response no one who posts on this forum has ever done one. That may be one of the reasons for stagnation and decline.

Dan L

As far as our Church I don't think they have done one since we have been here almost 20 years now.

However, when Deacon Stan went through the Evangelization Course at the University of Steubenville, they used the results of a survey for their home visits. He said it was a most enlighting time. Often times men would sit and talk about being altar servers, which would lead them to discuss why the quit going to Church. It is though as fallen away Catholics, they want someone to tell them it is ok, and it's not. So this leads into a time of sharing the Gospel and praying with the people.

All and all it was a very good program, and he learned a lot about talking with those that are not churched.

Pani Rose

Pani,

That is great news. I am now an altar server at 58. If I should fall away from the Church in 20 or 30 years will Father Deacon come and visit me? Just kidding.

That does seem a wonderful idea.

Dan L

Dan,

I hate to say it, but if you do the math from the above post, you might just be falling away. Whether or not it is from the church I do not know, but falling away physically is in the cards for all, if you get my drift.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Father,

I know, I know. If I'm still here in 20 or 30 years with God's help I'll be faithful though pretty old. If not still here I hope to be dancing in heaven. In either case I would enjoy a visit from Father Deacon or from you.

DanL

Thanks Dan,

I am trying to put my falling away (physically that is) off for as long as I can. Got a few rough spots to work through before trying to make it in to heaven. I appreciate the invitation though. :rolleyes:

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

...and I must say, Dan, what a smashing figure you cut! But I must ask... why did you choose not to sit on the floor with the other "young fellas" during Father's homily?

Oh... wait... I get it! As a member of the "50+ Club" myself, I can fully understand the importance of being able to get back up and complete your liturgical duties!

Seriously, Dan... my congratulations on your liturgical involvement. Given the way your face radiated through the entire DL last Sunday, it seemed readily apparent that your call to serve was not of your own choosing, but an answer to a call from Above. You're a good man for accepting it.

...and you really did cut a rather smashing figure!

Mnohaja i blahaja l'ita, my friend!

Al (a pilgrim)

Al,

We missed formally meeting again. Well, someday. Yes, it is a wonderful thing to be near the altar once again. I pray that I not fail in my duty to our Lord. It is difficult to get back up from sitting on the floor. Pray for me during fast times when I'll be obligated to do the full prostrations. I really do need to get back into daily exercise.

Bless you, for your kind words.

CDL

Exactly. The only problem is that once we discover the reason or reasons why they left, then there may be corrections in order. But for corrections to be in order, there has to be a willingness to act on those corrections. And if there is a willingness to act on those corrections, then there has to be a sense of gain for those who invest there time. If there are those who invest there time, especially as full-time ministers, then pointing out problems might prevent career advancement or the status quo. If career advancement or the status quo is going to be jeopardized, then there may be no investment, willingness, corrections, and problem solving in such surveys.

I hear you.

Joe

Joe,

But the problems to which I think you allude go beyond the local congregation and they aren't likely to be identified by disgruntled members. Some people leave for sound theological reasons. More often people leave for other reasons including the reason that they either weren't always the center of attention, they couldn't get their own way, or they weren't catechised properly.

As I wrote before I think visiting with people once they leave is of some value but not very much.

Of greater value is to seek out those millions of millions of people who have never heard or seen the Gospel.

Dan L

I think you are making light of the situation. It is always easy to write off those who leave as if the problem was always theirs. Isn't this the mindset of haughty triumphalism or just another case of defensive listening? I heard your explanation many times. The dolt patient in the pew is always the problem, not the physician of souls assistants.

Personally, I can think of many reasons to leave, but I don't.

It is a two-edged sword not knowing what makes people come and stay and what makes them leave. It begs the next question: Do we know what our product is? Sorry about using marketing terms.

Honesty is desperately needed. I know of several families who left their parish and the pastor refuses to believe he was part of the problem.

You see, Dan, the Church employs ordained clergy, who have "jobs for life." There is no need for quality control. What is important and is the driving factor is money. But money comes from the people. If people leave or withhold their money from the Church because they came to believe other things in their lives are of greater value - and I don't agree with them - then we have to decide why our Lord and his Church receives such a low priority in their lives. What convinced them that they can just up and leave so easily?

Joe

I believe that Joe brings up some very good points that deserve more attention than to just make the carte blanche assumption that once an individual has left our Church, for whatever reason, he�s gone � period - and not worth any further effort. This attitude of just giving up on the �Missing Byzantines� is a mistake in the highest degree.

There can be no doubt that many folks left the Church under tense, adverse circumstances, more than likely never to return. While there may be no hope in regaining many of these souls, there is much value in knowing the �whys� behind their choice so as to not repeat the same mistakes.

There is, however, yet another entire population of Byzantine Catholics out there who have not left the Church� just the Byzantine Church. I�ve stated before the assumption I�ve often heard (albeit without hard numbers to back it up) that on any given Sunday there are more Byzantine Catholics worshipping in Latin Churches than in Byzantine Churches. I need look no further than my own extended family to verify this statement. I�m sure many others can do the same. These are people who are still practicing Catholics� they�re just practicing somewhere else. And their reasons may be many� convenience, access to schools for the kids, the ready ability to �socialize� with other Catholics in their current neighborhoods, fear of having to explain to the uneducated how the brand of Catholicism of their birth can be so �different� than mainstream (read: Latin) Catholicism, waning pride in their heritage� and the list goes on.

These people are still canonical Byzantines as are, in many cases, their children (despite numerous baptisms having occurred in the Church of the West). Sadly, many of these people probably don�t even know that they�re still Byzantine Catholics! More likely than not, no one�s ever told them. Just to make them aware of this one fact could do much in the way of an invitation to return �home.�

Joe said that �honesty is desperately needed.� I agree. Sometimes it�s tough to ask the hard questions, and even tougher to face the answers. In the spirit of our �no fear� approach to evangelization, however, we cannot leave these questions unasked. At the risk of sounding downright blunt, I must respond to a statement made in a previous post. The poster stated, �More often people leave for other reasons including the reason that they either weren�t always the center of attention, they couldn�t get their own way, or they weren�t catechized properly.� Given the apparent reluctance to initiate efforts to bring the �Missing Byzantines� back to the fold, could there be a subconscious fear among many of our �new evangelizers� that the return of numerous cradle Byzantines, who bring with them blood links to the authentic history of our Church and it�s founders, would place them at a sort of heritage-based disadvantage within the Church? Could they be the ones who may possibly fear not being the �center of attention� or not being able to �get their way?�

Please forgive my bluntness, but the reluctance to initiate contact with the countless canonical Byzantines out there is beginning to sound a bit like, �If we could only get the Ruthenians out of the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church, then we could make the Church how we want it to be.�

I beg forgiveness if the observations I�ve expressed offend anyone� certainly not my intention. I�m just trying to put all the pieces of this puzzle together.

Al (a pilgrim)