www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall My Muslim student put me to shame

I would like to see how Islam is explained as polytheistic, don't both Muslims and Jews claim (not that I can or should validate those claims...) monotheistic belief? In the same way, we as Christians believe in Trinitarian Monotheism, Jews and Muslims call us polytheists no matter what we say we believe...

As for heretical, how can that be? It is certain the Ebionites were heretics, but Islam has evolved from its early stages, and the few early Christian-turned-Muslims-heretics have long died.

Another subject I was wondering... there are a handful of preachers who claim they can find Christian references in Qur'anic verses and that the non-Christian interpretations are interpolated by those (Muslim Imams/leaders) who disagreed with Christianity - is this true?

Michael Thoma,

If my memory serves me, I believe that Harry Wolfson -- in his book "The Philosophy of Kalam" -- shows that Muslim theologians in the middle ages took the Eastern Orthodox doctrine of "energies" (attributes) to an extreme, holding not only that the attributes of Allah are distinct from his essence, but that each attribute is an independent subsistence. In other words, each of Allah's attributes is a distinct divine being.

God bless,
Todd

The Mohammedans repeatedly accuse us of polytheism - this has had at least one liturgical backlash: most Christians in the Arab world, when making the Sign of the Cross, add two words, so that it reads: "In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, one God Amen.

Although it is possible to argue that the god whom the Mohammedans profess to worship is indeed the One God of the Bible, I'm not inclined to agree - because the attributes of the Mohammedan deity are not the same as the attributes of the One God. Moreover, while Christians have never repudiated the Old Testament, but rather make extensive use of the Old Testament in worship, prayer and teaching, Mohammedans make no use whatever of the Old Testament and/or the New Testament, cleaving exclusively to the Qu'uran.

Father Serge

I am of the opinion that insofar as the Muslims believe in the one God who created heaven and earth, we worship the same God. Insofar as they deny belief in the one God of (Abrhaham) Isaac and Jacob Who is Triune and has sent His only Son to redeem the world, we do not worship the same God.

It reminds me a bit of Paul and Barnabas's mission to Athens, when they saw there the temple dedicated "To the Unknown God".

Paul then speaks to the philosophers at the Areopagus:


Gordo

Michael,

The Qur'an is in major part a reinterpretation of the Hebrew and Greek scriptures i.e. of the Old and New Testaments. Muslims (Mohammadens have always asserted that these testaments were on the right track but had through translation and misunderstandings had collected many errors. God corrected those through His final prophet through the completed revelation of the Qur'an.

It can be said that there was a Moon God named "Allah" who really was the pattern for early worship among the Muslims. Hence one might interpret Islam as Polytheistic or at least as worshipping a different God than do the Christians and the Jews. Many serious people point to this but I have not studied their arguments enough to know what to make of them.

CDL

This is one of those questions that will drive us toward deeper understandings and is far too important to leave to mere "thinking". Prayer, meditation, fasting seem necessary for this because it has everthing to do with our destiny.

In any event, I will be with that class today and will admonish the students to take this question very seriously. If our student is correct then it behooves us to choose whom we will serve. Will we serve the god of consumption, of self satisfaction, of Islam, or Christianity.

CDL

The "god" of Islam creates both good and evil, and both righteous and sinful acts; moreover, he creates some men for heaven, and others -- by a positive act of will -- he creates for damnation, and there is no will but the will of Allah; and so, I confess as a truth of Christian faith that the "god" of Islam is not the true God of Christian revelation.

Finally, as a Christian -- who holds the Orthodox faith -- I confess that Mohammad is not a prophet, that the Quran is not a true revelation, and that Islam is a false religion.

God bless,
Todd

The Muslims are descended from Ishmael, and therefore wouldn't necessarily care about the Scriptures from the line of Isaac, I would assume.

They like to say it's the same God, but I think the Muslim Allah doesn't allow so much in the way of free will and free thought.

your student was right, Danny boy!would that there be more honest people like that young woman. alas, her honesty will not save her, Jesus Christ will, but with what she said, she is not far from the Kingdom of God. pray for her.
Much Love,
Jonn

Good point John. I do indeed pray for her.

CDL

Todd,

I do not disagree with your negative critique of Islamic views, nor do I ascribe some type of doctrinal equivalency between Christian Orthodoxy and Islam. By saying "insofar as..." that does not mean that I would describe as orthodox every point of Muslim doctrine regarding the one God. But there are points of agreement, and I think that that needs to be acknowledged, as much as the points of disagreement - and what we would regard as error.

And I think my distinction still stands.

God bless,

Gordon

I think it is quite necessary to differentiate between the God that Muslims worship and their understanding of that same God.

Todd is correct that Mohammad is not a prophet; that the Quran is not a true revelation; and that Islam is a false religion. This does not speak to the God that they believe in but rather to their faulty understanding of the God that they believe in.

In 1 Corinthians 13 Paul spoke: We see now through a glass in a dark manner; but then face to face. Now I know in part; but then I shall know even as I am known.(DR)

If we Christians see now only �through a glass in a dark manner� we can say that Muslims are just aware of the existence of someone behind the glass, cannot see through it even in a dark manner and, therefore, have made a lot of wrong conclusions about God. That does not mean that they worship a different God.

We must take advantage of the fact that they know that the Lord is behind that glass and, with the Light of Christ, show them the true splendor of the Trinity.

Dear John (Mr. Administrator),

Excellent!...as they say in the Guinness commercials.

Bill

To All,

Forgive me if I stray off topic here and add my uneducated two cents, but I'd like to convey these thoughts.

The Catholic Church, and in particular our late Holy Father John Paul II, did not embrace the ecumenical movement and move it beyond Christianity to dilute the faith, but rather to build it up. Without dialoging with non-Christians, how else can we show them Christ?

I try to follow the example of St. Francis of Assisi and Mother Teresa of Calcutta...and John Paul II. In the words of Saint Francis; "Preach the Gospel always, and if necessary, use words."

I do not fear that a Muslim or a Jew may gain heaven, but that I as a Christian may not.

In Christ,
Bill

Dear Todd,

Would you also say that protestants who believe in double predestination are also believing in another god?