www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Very Interesting Statements

I would take anything the editor of Orthodox England takes with a very generous pinch - if not truckload - of salt! He often writes pompous and pious nonsense.

Spasi Khristos -
Fr Mark.

Dear Alex:


Is your diabetes acting up for you this morning like mine?

If you look again, the words "official" and "response" were in quotations!

AmdG

Dear Amado,

Yes it is, in fact . . .

But the quotation marks you used could be taken variously.

The only ones who take ROCOR seriously at all are members of ROCOR and some of our Ukrainian Studites who have joined them.

And I would never quote someone of the SSPX to illustrate an "official" Western Catholic response to anything said by an Eastern bishop.

High sugar levels can get me going, you know . . .

Magandang omaga!

Mabuhay ang Filipinas!

Alex

It's funny cause I know some Roac guys who think the Rocor is too liberal--and that it is favorable to the "liberal" MP.

It's also funny that the Roac guys are the ones who insist most strongly that there are no valid sacraments "outside the Orthodox Church" and yet they are also outside the Orthodox Church.


Anyway I'm off the topic.

I'm having a really bad day at work.

Cardinal Kasper is not my favorite cleric in the world to say the least, but here I feel like defending him.

Maybe it's because in the last few days anything remotely western has come under attack on this forum.

Anyway.


LatinTrad

A bit off subject here... I may not be informing anyone of anything new here, but we should be aware that the situation with ROCOR is changing rapidly, now that they are in reunion talks with the MP, which of course, has repercussions all over the world. Those who are in communion with MP will be in communion with ROCOR, if and when this takes place, which of course means the OCA will also be in communion with ROCOR.

We live in interesting times.

Priest Thomas

Dear LatinTrad,

There are many Western things that are esteemed here on this forum too!

And I think anything that is Western that DOES come under attack, IS attacked because it seems to attack us Easterners first.

Can you truthfully say that all our Latin posters here have been respectful of Orthodoxy and Eastern Catholicism?

And some of the views of traditional Latins here, one could suppose, relate more to SSPX than what most of us know as mainstream Latin Catholicism and Vatican II-inspired ecumenism.

I'll pray for you at work today.

At least you have a job . . .

Alex

Bless me a sinner, Father Thomas,

Yes, I've heard that - although I've heard of attempts at the same before. Hopefully, these things will pan out and reunion will be realized.

And Russians should unite with Russians etc. Borscht is thicker than water . . .

But what will ROCORites do with themselves if they find themselves in a position not to look down on members of the OCA?

There is a Ukrainian saying: One can get used to anything, even to one's own wife . . .

I wonder if there will not be some ROCORites, like our Nikolai , who might not then, upon reunion with the MP, seek out a "more Orthodox" jurisdiction?

But I think that, despite this, the commentator noted above by our Byzantine Filipino still doesn't speak in an official capacity on behalf of Orthodoxy.

He could very well be right though.

I wonder, Father, if the ROCOR is united with the MP, could they keep their local Saints such as St Theophan the New of Poltava and St Jonah of Manchuria?

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your blessing,

Alex

Well, if we're not, you must admit we do get called on it!

But I do know what Trad means - and to be fair, most of you "regulars" don't do this, but from time to time I have seen disparaging remarks made about a Latin devotion, such as the Rosary or the Sacred Heart.

And to be even more fair, these remarks don't seem to be intended to be insulting, they're almost offhand, in the middle of some other discussion, and when we call them on it, the poster will almost always backtrack and apologize.

We all get a little defensive sometimes, when it's about Someone we love.

Dear Dolly,

Agreed.

But disparaging comments about Latin devotions are often made by Easterners in response to what we perceive is a view by Latins that we are somehow less Catholic if we don't practice them - or wish to change them for Eastern liturgical forms.

Having said that, it is always necessary to be respectful of one another's devotions.

And, as was mentioned, the devotion to the Sacred Hearts, and the Eucharistic Adoration are all part of our history too, and that of our New Martyrs.

I've tried to show how the Rosary first originated in the East, as you know .

And we, in the Eastern Catholic Churches, don't really speak with one voice on the matter of our Latin devotions.

In this year's edition of the Basilian Calendar, Fr. Basil Zinko, OSBM, who has a reputation for being faithful to the Easternization of our Church, wrote words to the effect of: "When we hear of attacks on devotions such as the rosary, the stations of the Cross, the Eucharistic Supplication and the like, we should contradict them strenuously, as I'm sure Christ would too. These devotions harmonize wonderfully with the spirituality of our Church . . ."

So you see?

Alex

May the Lord God bless you!

There's no problem here. For instance, St. John (Maximovich) is venerated in many places in the OCA. We have a monastery dedicated to his intercession in CA, and he is also listed in the All-American Saints icon published by the OCA, even though he has not been canonized by a canonical Orthodox Church. His sanctity is unquestioned.

There's actually more cooperation than most people realize. I think this time, the movement is for real, and it will happen within the next few years.

PT

Bless me a sinner, Father Thomas!

Well, good for them all!

Since we're on the topic of saints, I once had a conversation with a Czech Orthodox priest that raised some unanswered questions for me.

He said he was bringing in a lot of Hussites into Orthodoxy.

And he said that he had hoped that he could allow for the veneration of Jan Hus to bring in even more.

Apparently, this issue was dealt with in the 19th century - I take it it was denied.

Any thoughts on that? I know that Russian Orthodox scholars have commented that Hus and his movement were, in their view, a movement back to the Cyrillo-Methodian heritage of Bohemia.

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your blessing,

Alex

Dear Alex:

Since when did I become a "Byzantine Filipino?"

It's so difficult just to transform oneself into an Eastern Catholic and, now, morph into a Byzantine?

I am Roman (of old) and has not come around to being of the New Roman persuasion. Although, thankfully, you are adept at presenting the Constantinopolitan tradition and all things Eastern.

Unfortunately, Byzantium has come and gone and the Eternal City is, well, still here and forever, hopefully!

(Third Rome seems lurking in the wings!)


AmdG

Your knowledge of the subject is much more erudite than mine. In fact, a Google search on Hussites and Orthodoxy brings up your article subject! It is interesting, though.

PT

Bless me a sinner, Father Thomas,

Yes, and a follower of John Wycliffe's, John Payne, from England was said to have travelled to Constantinople where he became Orthodox and was consecrated a Bishop "Constantinos Anglikos."

He returned to Bohemia where he apparently served a group of Hussites that had become Orthodox.

The Orthodox Saint Theodore Ostrozhsky, relative to the defender of Orthodoxy, Constantine Ostrozhsky, not only knew Hussites, he adapted Han Zizka's successful military tactics in his wars with Poland.

The Czech Orthodox Church has discovered the Orthodox Baptismal Certificate of Hus's friend, Jerome of Prague and there is some talk of his possible glorification as an Orthodox Saint!

This certainly makes sense of Jerome's final words before his own burning at the stake, "I die for the Holy, Apostolic and Orthodox Faith."

And Hus was always well esteemed, as Fr. John Meyendorff (+memory eternal!) himself was wrote to me to tell me, among Orthodox.

Hus's insistence on an understandable liturgical language, married clergy and Communion in both kinds, as well as his reaching out to the Cyrillo-Methodian tradition - no wonder Russian scholars saw the connection between him and Orthodoxy.

And no wonder Hussites have come into the Orthodox Church since.

As you know, our Ukrainian Orthodox poet and bard, Taras Shevchenko, praises Hus highly as a Cyrillo-Methodian pan-slavist when he writes of him:

The Holy Czech
The Great Martyr
The Glorious Hus!

And I will pray that all Slavs may become as heretical as the Great Heretic of Constance!

This poem is actually read during annual national days in the Czech republic at a concert regularly held by the Ukrainian Embassy in Prague - my in-laws have attended a couple of times already when they were there.

Alex